thessalonian
New Member
No, in your belief, contrary to nature, the seed, once rooted is guaranteed to produce fruit. That is my point.
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Baptism and obedience
- Thread starter thessalonian
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thessalonian
New Member
"Water baptism in any form does nothing for the spirit of man! "
More hadwaving and ignoring the word of God!
"Baptism now saves you".
It is the time God chooses for the holy spirit to come in. It is your blindness that does not allow you to see what the scriptures say. It is not the water itself. I never said it was. But over and over you distort what we say. It is the spirit of God on the waters.
More hadwaving and ignoring the word of God!
"Baptism now saves you".
It is the time God chooses for the holy spirit to come in. It is your blindness that does not allow you to see what the scriptures say. It is not the water itself. I never said it was. But over and over you distort what we say. It is the spirit of God on the waters.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The spirit of God does not live "on the waters"
The Holy Spirit requires no water (H2o) to enter the spirit of man!
You must learn to separate the natural realm from the spiritual realm! Spirit, be it God's spirit or man's spirit is impervious to the Natural realm except that for this natural life the spirit of man is, in accordance with God's plan, captive to a body of flesh.
When we die, our spirit is freed from the flesh. It is also death that ends our opportunity to have faith in God. If you don't have it while living this natural life, you ain't gonna get it after this first death! If you don't have FAITH before this first death, you are subject to the second death!
[ May 23, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]
The Holy Spirit requires no water (H2o) to enter the spirit of man!
You must learn to separate the natural realm from the spiritual realm! Spirit, be it God's spirit or man's spirit is impervious to the Natural realm except that for this natural life the spirit of man is, in accordance with God's plan, captive to a body of flesh.
When we die, our spirit is freed from the flesh. It is also death that ends our opportunity to have faith in God. If you don't have it while living this natural life, you ain't gonna get it after this first death! If you don't have FAITH before this first death, you are subject to the second death!
[ May 23, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]
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Yelsew
Guest
No, in your belief, contrary to nature, the seed, once rooted is guaranteed to produce fruit. That is my point. </font>[/QUOTE]Your point is MOOT! You did not read my statements!
Where did I say there is a guarantee? Why do you insist on stating what I believe? I am quite open about and adequate at stating my beliefs clearly.
The ingredients of good soil are malliable texture, proper nutrients, and adequate moisture in a place where adequate sunlight exists. With those in place a seed that falls thereon, can be expected to produce the life that is in it, even to bearing much fruit!
thessalonian
New Member
"The spirit of God does not live "on the waters""
Where did I say it did. It was an illusion to some scripture. Apparently your not too familiar with scripture or it would have brought what I was talking about to mind. Too bad.
"The Holy Spirit requires no water (H2o) to enter the spirit of man!"
Now who's putting words and beliefs in whose mouth?
"You must learn to separate the natural realm from the spiritual realm! Spirit, be it God's spirit or man's spirit is impervious to the Natural realm except that for this natural life the spirit of man is, in accordance with God's plan, captive to a body of flesh. "
God brought the natural and spiritual together with his death and resurection.
"When we die, our spirit is freed from the flesh. It is also death that ends our opportunity to have faith in God. If you don't have it while living this natural life, you ain't gonna get it after this first death! If you don't have FAITH before this first death, you are subject to the second death!"
Not my point. And I agree that our opportunity is in this life. My point is, once you've got it can you loose it.
"Your point is MOOT! You did not read my statements!"
My point would only be moot if I were only speaking to you. In fact I was just using what you said as a springboard for what I wanted to say. I read your statements. Don't take it personally.
Where did I say it did. It was an illusion to some scripture. Apparently your not too familiar with scripture or it would have brought what I was talking about to mind. Too bad.
"The Holy Spirit requires no water (H2o) to enter the spirit of man!"
Now who's putting words and beliefs in whose mouth?
"You must learn to separate the natural realm from the spiritual realm! Spirit, be it God's spirit or man's spirit is impervious to the Natural realm except that for this natural life the spirit of man is, in accordance with God's plan, captive to a body of flesh. "
God brought the natural and spiritual together with his death and resurection.
"When we die, our spirit is freed from the flesh. It is also death that ends our opportunity to have faith in God. If you don't have it while living this natural life, you ain't gonna get it after this first death! If you don't have FAITH before this first death, you are subject to the second death!"
Not my point. And I agree that our opportunity is in this life. My point is, once you've got it can you loose it.
"Your point is MOOT! You did not read my statements!"
My point would only be moot if I were only speaking to you. In fact I was just using what you said as a springboard for what I wanted to say. I read your statements. Don't take it personally.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Thess, you said,
Are saying that 'the church' baptises the unwilling soul in order to save it?
Are you saying that Baptism is necessary for the word of God to be 'heard' by the soul?
======================================
Back to the parable,
You said,
The parable uses the various forms of ground to represent man, the seed that is sewn is God's word which comes to man no matter what man's condition, be it hard hearted, shallow, busy in the things of the world, or ready and waiting for the seed. There is also the birds, those false teachers, who would come along and devour (distort, weaken, misstate) the Word of God that comes to you before it can take root in you. The Word of God that falls on "good ground" will always produce the crop that will be harvested. The seed that falls on the other ground is not wasted, it is the ground that does not allow the seed to produce.
I responded,
you replied,
The fact is your statement is false! Water baptism is not required for faith, which is the basis of salvation. The "soul" already has the word of God or the "soul" would not submit to being baptised!
Are saying that 'the church' baptises the unwilling soul in order to save it?
Are you saying that Baptism is necessary for the word of God to be 'heard' by the soul?
======================================
Back to the parable,
You said,
The parable of the sower is Jesus, the living God's illustration in which he says that seed that falls on good ground grows and produces. Straight from the Guarantor's mouth!
The parable uses the various forms of ground to represent man, the seed that is sewn is God's word which comes to man no matter what man's condition, be it hard hearted, shallow, busy in the things of the world, or ready and waiting for the seed. There is also the birds, those false teachers, who would come along and devour (distort, weaken, misstate) the Word of God that comes to you before it can take root in you. The Word of God that falls on "good ground" will always produce the crop that will be harvested. The seed that falls on the other ground is not wasted, it is the ground that does not allow the seed to produce.
(Thes)
"Baptism now saves you".
(Yelsew)
The "soul" already has the word of God or the "soul" would not submit
to being baptised!
(Singer)
According to Catholicism's reliance on ''baptism saves'' lets have a baptism
for the occupants of our countries jails and change their hearts if that's all
it takes.....and then turn them loose.
Let's do a 'fly-over' baptism of all of Iraq and Afghanistan and hope
to hit Bin Laden and Saddam to force the spirit of God upon them.
Am I dreaming or is this what Catholicism preaches..?
I prefer to believe baptism will come after the indwelling of the spirit
as Yelsew says.
Oh....the bible says that too
"Baptism now saves you".
(Yelsew)
The "soul" already has the word of God or the "soul" would not submit
to being baptised!
(Singer)
According to Catholicism's reliance on ''baptism saves'' lets have a baptism
for the occupants of our countries jails and change their hearts if that's all
it takes.....and then turn them loose.
Let's do a 'fly-over' baptism of all of Iraq and Afghanistan and hope
to hit Bin Laden and Saddam to force the spirit of God upon them.
Am I dreaming or is this what Catholicism preaches..?
I prefer to believe baptism will come after the indwelling of the spirit
as Yelsew says.
Oh....the bible says that too
thessalonian
New Member
Singer, I find your posts rather childish. Why waste time I ask myself. Okay, I won't. God bless you though.
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Yelsew
Guest
You must think we are dumping on you Thessalonian, but we are not. The problems we point out were here before you were born. The fact that you willingly adhere to and defend those teachings of the Catholic church that are no biblically supported is a matter of concern, but to each his own. You voluntarily adhere to them as you voluntarily entered this arena. No one threw you to the lions!
thessalonian
New Member
You must think we are dumping on you Thessalonian, but we are not. The problems we point out were here before you were born. The fact that you willingly adhere to and defend those teachings of the Catholic church that are no biblically supported is a matter of concern, but to each his own. You voluntarily adhere to them as you voluntarily entered this arena. No one threw you to the lions! </font>[/QUOTE]Yelsew,
I have defended the teachings of the Catholic Church since before you were born. The problems that you see are only in your mind.
I am also quite free to not respond to singer if I like. But people like you will always make the coward accuasation. Or he can't find it in the Bible accusation. Defending my faith is not a problem. I just get sick of pearl casting after a while. I am quite used to being surronded by people who hate what I believe while acting like one big happy family with the rest of Protestantism that contradicts them. Sigh.
Singers posts aren't childish!
The problem is that some of you guys are picking and picking all the Bible to bits. It's only an interpretation, after all. And the trouble is, some people get so into burying their mose into topic, that they forget the sun is shining and the flowers are blooming.
Singer is only lightening the scene up and letting some sun shine in.
The problem is that some of you guys are picking and picking all the Bible to bits. It's only an interpretation, after all. And the trouble is, some people get so into burying their mose into topic, that they forget the sun is shining and the flowers are blooming.
Singer is only lightening the scene up and letting some sun shine in.
Thanks Glorious,
You for one see the humor and the sunshine !
Bless you.
Thes:
You said:
"I have defended the teachings of the Catholic Church since before you were
born. The problems that you see are only in your mind.
I am also quite free to not respond to singer if I like. But people like
you will always make the coward accuasation. Or he can't find it in
the Bible accusation. Defending my faith is not a problem. I just get
sick of pearl casting after a while. I am quite used to being surronded
by people who hate what I believe while acting like one big happy family with
the rest of Protestantism that contradicts them. Sigh. "
Why don't you defend Christianity instead of the RCC then?
That's what's so nice about not having a church as I do....I can be free to
choose what I defend / and it never is a church.
You choose not to respond because you don't have answers, Thes.
Defending your faith you say...........or is that defending the Catholic Church.
You shouldn't think that the ''one big happy family syndrome" takes place
in Protestant circles only. Have you ever had the opportunity to feel
rejection at the hands of Catholics due to your non-affiliation..?
(By those who claim to have all the keys to the kingdom) !!
Lily White doesn't describe that "One true church" my friend.
Singer
You for one see the humor and the sunshine !
Bless you.
Thes:
You said:
"I have defended the teachings of the Catholic Church since before you were
born. The problems that you see are only in your mind.
I am also quite free to not respond to singer if I like. But people like
you will always make the coward accuasation. Or he can't find it in
the Bible accusation. Defending my faith is not a problem. I just get
sick of pearl casting after a while. I am quite used to being surronded
by people who hate what I believe while acting like one big happy family with
the rest of Protestantism that contradicts them. Sigh. "
Why don't you defend Christianity instead of the RCC then?
That's what's so nice about not having a church as I do....I can be free to
choose what I defend / and it never is a church.
You choose not to respond because you don't have answers, Thes.
Defending your faith you say...........or is that defending the Catholic Church.
You shouldn't think that the ''one big happy family syndrome" takes place
in Protestant circles only. Have you ever had the opportunity to feel
rejection at the hands of Catholics due to your non-affiliation..?
(By those who claim to have all the keys to the kingdom) !!
Lily White doesn't describe that "One true church" my friend.
Singer
Glorious, I agree!
One can disagree and still have a good sense of humor. His wife is one "lucky" lady to have such a companion.
Hey Singer, at least you have two votes.
Keep makin' some of us smile! MEE
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Well I am honored to have an octogenarian correcting my misgivings.
thessalonian
New Member
thessalonian
New Member
Y
Yelsew
Guest
He did, he said Go Ye therefore into ALL the world making disciples, baptising them in the Name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don't know about you, but to me that means giving God's word to ALL. It doesn't mean give only that part of God's word that the pope deems appropraite.
When Paul wrote to the churches in Rome, Corinth, Philippi, Thessalonica, Galatia, Ephesus, etc. He was not writing to the POPE, or the College of Cardinals, he was writing to those who became believers in Jesus Christ under his direct teaching. The people were Elders and lay persons, common ordinary folk and their leaders, NOT POPES AND PRIESTs of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. There is no reason under the sun why ordinary NON CHURCH people should not be able to read and interpret the Writings or Paul, or of Peter the fisherman, or Matthew the tax collector, or the other fishermen or even the writings of Dr. Luke, if you can read his handwriting.
If God wanted his word to remain under the control of the POPE, he would not have had it written in the common languages of the day! He would have foiled Gutenbergs efforts, and we would remain in the Dark Ages (the captivity of his people in slavery to the POPE)
Yes, Yelsew, I also have noted that if God had wanted the Catholic Church to
hog all the glory of "conveying the truth to all mankind'', wouldn't He have at
least hinted that He was establishing a Church to do just that..!! Instead, the
churches that existed at the time that the Catholic Church was formed must
haunt the Vatican to no end.
Without their wrongful interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19, their act falls apart.
All the doctrine of the RCC has no basis; no footing; no meaning IF
the verse about Peter being the rock is proven false. Without exaulting
Catholicism to the top of the heap, they have nothing. If they can't be FIRST,
their claim to fame turns sour. If they are not the group that received the keys
to the kingdom, then their claims are empty. If they did not receive the keys to
the kingdom, then someone else did. (whosoever...by the way) !!
If all of us believers are saints, then their compilation of named individuals is a
fake. If Mary is as important to us as they make her, then she should have been
mentioned in the Godhead. If if is so important to eat Christ's body and drink His
blood, why didn't they eat Jesus when they had the chance..??
By the way, your lacksidasical attitude toward the message God is trying
to convey and the truth to all mankind has been duly noted.
God has no trouble conveying the truth through the hearts and testimonies
of believers. By that I mean those who have chosen to believe that Jesus
rose from the dead; those who believe that He hears our prayers and answers
our pleadings; those who claim the assurance of salvation that is only offered
by our faith in His grace.
We can discount, leave, neglect, ignore and dispute Catholicism all we want and
God can still work in individual lives and convery His message to all mankind;
which, by the way, does not require any mention of the Catholic Church; neither
in the bible nor in actual practice.
Thank You Lord for giving life to those of us who believe in You.
hog all the glory of "conveying the truth to all mankind'', wouldn't He have at
least hinted that He was establishing a Church to do just that..!! Instead, the
churches that existed at the time that the Catholic Church was formed must
haunt the Vatican to no end.
Without their wrongful interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19, their act falls apart.
All the doctrine of the RCC has no basis; no footing; no meaning IF
the verse about Peter being the rock is proven false. Without exaulting
Catholicism to the top of the heap, they have nothing. If they can't be FIRST,
their claim to fame turns sour. If they are not the group that received the keys
to the kingdom, then their claims are empty. If they did not receive the keys to
the kingdom, then someone else did. (whosoever...by the way) !!
If all of us believers are saints, then their compilation of named individuals is a
fake. If Mary is as important to us as they make her, then she should have been
mentioned in the Godhead. If if is so important to eat Christ's body and drink His
blood, why didn't they eat Jesus when they had the chance..??
By the way, your lacksidasical attitude toward the message God is trying
to convey and the truth to all mankind has been duly noted.
God has no trouble conveying the truth through the hearts and testimonies
of believers. By that I mean those who have chosen to believe that Jesus
rose from the dead; those who believe that He hears our prayers and answers
our pleadings; those who claim the assurance of salvation that is only offered
by our faith in His grace.
We can discount, leave, neglect, ignore and dispute Catholicism all we want and
God can still work in individual lives and convery His message to all mankind;
which, by the way, does not require any mention of the Catholic Church; neither
in the bible nor in actual practice.
Thank You Lord for giving life to those of us who believe in You.
thessalonian
New Member
"Without their wrongful interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19, their act falls apart.
All the doctrine of the RCC has no basis; no footing; no meaning IF
the verse about Peter being the rock is proven false.?"
Yes, God put that one little nasty verse in to draw 1 billion people from the truth. Nasty little verse that it is that you have to write out with your excuses. By the way, Matt 16:18 is not nearly the only verse that I would use to defend the papacy if I had copious amounts of spare time to waste conversing with you.
"Instead, the
churches that existed at the time that the Catholic Church was formed must
haunt the Vatican to no end. "
In minesota we call them mosquitoes. That is the ones who think they are Christs Church.
All the doctrine of the RCC has no basis; no footing; no meaning IF
the verse about Peter being the rock is proven false.?"
Yes, God put that one little nasty verse in to draw 1 billion people from the truth. Nasty little verse that it is that you have to write out with your excuses. By the way, Matt 16:18 is not nearly the only verse that I would use to defend the papacy if I had copious amounts of spare time to waste conversing with you.
"Instead, the
churches that existed at the time that the Catholic Church was formed must
haunt the Vatican to no end. "
In minesota we call them mosquitoes. That is the ones who think they are Christs Church.