thessalonian
New Member
(emphasis mine)
Do you truly believe that the Catholic Church equates to Salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Don't you know? We are saved by grace silly.
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Baptism and obedience
- Thread starter thessalonian
- Start date
Do you truly believe that the Catholic Church equates to Salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Don't you know? We are saved by grace silly.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Those are your words are they not? You did say that coming to the Catholic Church is salvation!
thessalonian
New Member
I did? No, I don't see those words that you put in my mouth in my post anywhere. Therefore I cannot state that I agree or disagree with them especially since the context of them is yours. I would not say that someone who comes to the Catholic Church is guarenteed salvation so I would not agree with those words if that is the context you are presenting them in. Since I did not use them I cannot provide the context. I can provide the context for the Holy Spirit working to bring people in to the Church of Christ however since those are the words I give you now and they are equivalent to the words I gave you before.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
No actually it's very important. That's why I teach it to my kids and that is why I will be debating that very topin in October in public forum. I just don't have time to waste on your anti-catholic manuevering and distortions at this time. Especially since I believe prayer and a good excercism is the only way to get through to you.Originally posted by thessalonian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Singer:
I would use to defend the papacy if I had copious
amounts of spare time to waste conversing with you.
God said to go to the uttermost parts of the earth and spread the gospel.
Either you're getting lax on your obedience, Thes, or YOUR gospel
isn't very important !!
And yes, I know that the Holy Spirit works outside of the Catholic Church. Otherwise those who came to it would be able to claim part of their salvation for themselves. Mosquitoes do have a difficult time getting much right when it comes to teaching about scripture however. </font>[/QUOTE](italics emphasis is mine)
Does this jog your memory?
Hey Glorious, Hope you are well! I see no reason to hurry either. I can whip you in a debate in a few days or in a few weeks , either way is alright with me.
Seriously, have a great weekend and we will set something up in the near future. Should we allow Singer or anyone else to join or should just me and you fight it out.
Let me know.
In Christ, Brian
, either way is alright with me.
Seriously, have a great weekend and we will set something up in the near future. Should we allow Singer or anyone else to join or should just me and you fight it out.
In Christ, Brian
thessalonian
New Member
No actually it's very important. That's why I teach it to my kids and that is why I will be debating that very topin in October in public forum. I just don't have time to waste on your anti-catholic manuevering and distortions at this time. Especially since I believe prayer and a good excercism is the only way to get through to you.Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thessalonian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Singer:
I would use to defend the papacy if I had copious
amounts of spare time to waste conversing with you.
God said to go to the uttermost parts of the earth and spread the gospel.
Either you're getting lax on your obedience, Thes, or YOUR gospel
isn't very important !!
And yes, I know that the Holy Spirit works outside of the Catholic Church. Otherwise those who came to it would be able to claim part of their salvation for themselves. Mosquitoes do have a difficult time getting much right when it comes to teaching about scripture however. </font>[/QUOTE](italics emphasis is mine)
Does this jog your memory? </font>[/QUOTE]I am well aware of my words but I will not agree to the words that you put in my mouth as your intention is to twist and distort what I mean. I have not meant an honest anti-catholic yet.
thessalonian
New Member
(italics emphasis is mine)Originally posted by thessalonian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thessalonian:
No actually it's very important. That's why I teach it to my kids and that is why I will be debating that very topin in October in public forum. I just don't have time to waste on your anti-catholic manuevering and distortions at this time. Especially since I believe prayer and a good excercism is the only way to get through to you.Originally posted by Singer:
[qb] I would use to defend the papacy if I had copious
amounts of spare time to waste conversing with you.
God said to go to the uttermost parts of the earth and spread the gospel.
Either you're getting lax on your obedience, Thes, or YOUR gospel
isn't very important !!
And yes, I know that the Holy Spirit works outside of the Catholic Church. Otherwise those who came to it would be able to claim part of their salvation for themselves. Mosquitoes do have a difficult time getting much right when it comes to teaching about scripture however. </font>
Does this jog your memory? </font>[/QUOTE]Can you show me these words in there because I simply don't see where I said them:
"coming to the Catholic Church is salvation! "
They are your words as far as I can tell. From your perspective of what salvation is as I understand it, I cannot agree with your words if they are given your context. It is as simple as that. If I put my meaning to the words above, that you stated then I would agree with them. But I cannot put my context to your words and so I will not agree with them. For your word, "salvation" has a different meaning than my word "salvation". Further I find it a waste of time to get in to a real discussion on this issue with someone who could care less what I have to say and will only look for an angle on it.
Blessings
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The word "otherwise" connects 'works outside the Catholic Church' and 'those who came to it (the Catholic church)'. followed by 'to claim part of their salvation'. Thus your thought seems to say that 'by coming to the Catholic Church there is salvation!'
Kind of like 'the cities of refuge' of the Old Testament. If you escaped and made it to a city of refuge, you were safe from retribution.
thessalonian
New Member
The word "otherwise" connects 'works outside the Catholic Church' and 'those who came to it (the Catholic church)'. followed by 'to claim part of their salvation'. Thus your thought seems to say that 'by coming to the Catholic Church there is salvation!'
Kind of like 'the cities of refuge' of the Old Testament. If you escaped and made it to a city of refuge, you were safe from retribution. </font>[/QUOTE]Like I said, it's your context not mine. This has been fun. Do play again.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Winners
lozers
lozers
Thessalonian might have been referring to this publicized comment
by Catholic writer David Palm:
"The gist of the whole discussion of "no salvation outside the Church," , it
seems to me, is that the Church has perennially preserved two parallel truths;
(1) Those who through no fault of their own are ignorant of the necessity of
being visibly united to the Catholic Church may still be saved if they live
fully in light of the grace they have [a logical corrollary to this would be that
they are, in this case, in some kind of communion with the Catholic Church,
however imperfect] and (2) there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. "
by Catholic writer David Palm:
"The gist of the whole discussion of "no salvation outside the Church," , it
seems to me, is that the Church has perennially preserved two parallel truths;
(1) Those who through no fault of their own are ignorant of the necessity of
being visibly united to the Catholic Church may still be saved if they live
fully in light of the grace they have [a logical corrollary to this would be that
they are, in this case, in some kind of communion with the Catholic Church,
however imperfect] and (2) there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. "
trying2understand
New Member
Hey, I'll come right out and say it.
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominational assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to meet Him in the Church.
Ron
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominational assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to meet Him in the Church.
Ron
thessalonian
New Member
Amen Ron. Now why couldn't they have said it like you do. And I know that the words you speak mean the same thing as if I spoke them because we are unified believers in the body of Christ. It was fun yankin his chain by the way.
thessalonian
New Member
You missed an h Yelsew and added an n Yelsew. I fixed it for you.Originally posted by Yelsew:
Whiners
dozers
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Is the church where Saul met Jesus?
Y
Yelsew
Guest
You missed an h Yelsew and added an n Yelsew. I fixed it for you. </font>[/QUOTE]That's what lozers do, they always "fix" the results to their own satisfaction!Originally posted by thessalonian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
Whiners
dozers
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the
Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the
Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominationa
l assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to meet
Him in the Church.
I think Singer just lost all respect for the Catholic Faith....
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the
Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the
Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominationa
l assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to meet
Him in the Church.
I think Singer just lost all respect for the Catholic Faith....
MEE did too! Walks away with hurt feelings.Originally posted by Singer:
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the
Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the
Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominationa
l assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to meet
Him in the Church.
I think Singer just lost all respect for the Catholic Faith....
MEE
thessalonian
New Member
Gee,
We get told we're not Christians and are going to hell day in and day out and have our beliefs ridiculed and slammed and maligned on a daily basis and you guys here one little line that convicts your conscience and your in tears. Lost all respect? Give me a flipping break!
I pray that you people on this board are invicibly ignorant. Though with the explanation you recieve by Ron and Grant and Brother Ed, and Mike, etc. etc. That is difficult to fathom. Though God knows and he is the judge.
Blessings.
By the way, I think my pandering with Yelsew showed quite well what I intended. I would not agree to his words to me that were not the words I said because I know that the meanings that he placed on them were not the same meanings I placed on them. There is ambiguity in words and words develope differently within cultures (Catholic vs. Protestant) especially when there has been little real communication for 500 years. The word salvation for instance has a different meaning in the context of the Church that it is spoken. The lutherans see it in the context of something that can be lost, while the baptists tend to be more in the OSAS areana where one is saved when he makes the pledge for Jesus regardless of what happens afterward and other non-denoms see it from an eternal security perspective where works must flow from salvatoin.
None of these perspectives are quite Catholic though the Lutheran one is the closest.
On the other hand when Ron spoke, I knew I could agree with his words because they were in the Catholic context.
Blessings
We get told we're not Christians and are going to hell day in and day out and have our beliefs ridiculed and slammed and maligned on a daily basis and you guys here one little line that convicts your conscience and your in tears. Lost all respect? Give me a flipping break!
I pray that you people on this board are invicibly ignorant. Though with the explanation you recieve by Ron and Grant and Brother Ed, and Mike, etc. etc. That is difficult to fathom. Though God knows and he is the judge.
Blessings.
By the way, I think my pandering with Yelsew showed quite well what I intended. I would not agree to his words to me that were not the words I said because I know that the meanings that he placed on them were not the same meanings I placed on them. There is ambiguity in words and words develope differently within cultures (Catholic vs. Protestant) especially when there has been little real communication for 500 years. The word salvation for instance has a different meaning in the context of the Church that it is spoken. The lutherans see it in the context of something that can be lost, while the baptists tend to be more in the OSAS areana where one is saved when he makes the pledge for Jesus regardless of what happens afterward and other non-denoms see it from an eternal security perspective where works must flow from salvatoin.
None of these perspectives are quite Catholic though the Lutheran one is the closest.
On the other hand when Ron spoke, I knew I could agree with his words because they were in the Catholic context.
Blessings