Before the Foundation of the World

[Van]

Meh...you only accept your perversions...

Note an attempt to claim the choice of from or since to translate the Greek "apo" is a perversion.
So his nonsensical claim is the KJV just happened to get it wrong, then those dunderheads of the NKJV missed the obvious too. This is not to mention the NIV, NASB, LEB, WEB, YLT and more than 40 more. Nope they all chose perversion according to the fiction of Calvinism.

 

[Yeshua1]

Note an attempt to claim the choice of from or since to translate the Greek "apo" is a perversion.
So his nonsensical claim is the KJV just happened to get it wrong, then those dunderheads of the NKJV missed the obvious too. This is not to mention the NIV, NASB, LEB, WEB, YLT and more than 40 more. Nope they all chose perversion according to the fiction of Calvinism.

"Taint So!"

 

[37818]

Before the foundation of the world.
Titus 1:2
2 Timothy 1:9
John 17:24
1 Peter 1:20
Ephesians 1:4

 

[AustinC]

Note an attempt to claim the choice of from or since to translate the Greek "apo" is a perversion.
So his nonsensical claim is the KJV just happened to get it wrong, then those dunderheads of the NKJV missed the obvious too. This is not to mention the NIV, NASB, LEB, WEB, YLT and more than 40 more. Nope they all chose perversion according to the fiction of Calvinism.

Meh...I provided a translation that is accurate with the Greek. You can keep looking for loopholes if you wish.

 

[Van]

"Taint So!"

Folks, note the behavior of some Calvinists, filled with Calvinist rage, against truth, justice and the biblical doctrine.

 

[Van]

Meh...I provided a translation that is accurate with the Greek. You can keep looking for loopholes if you wish.

One of less than 10, versus more than 50. Note how even the word loophole is redefined by those attacking truth.

 

[Van]

Before the foundation of the world.
Titus 1:2 before = "pro (G4253)"
2 Timothy 1:9 before = "pro (G4253) [Except in NASB and NASB95) pro is mistranslated as "from."]
John 17:24 before = "pro (G4253)"
1 Peter 1:20 before = "pro (G4253)"
Ephesians 1:4 first before = "pro (G4253)"

Thus scripture addresses "before" creation in the above verses, and address the time from or since creation in the following verses:
Matthew 25:34 from = "apo (G575)"
Hebrews 4:3 from = "apo (G575)"
Revelation 13:8 from = "apo (G575)" [Except in ESV and RSV where "apo" is mistranslated as "before.]
Revelation 17:8 from = "apo (G575)" [Including both the ESV and RSV!]

 

[Iconoclast]

He has always been a mediator as God the Creator. John 1:1-3.

Mediator of what?
How does this passage inform us as to what you mean?

 

[Iconoclast]

Brightfame52,
Hello b52

God even Christ Is the first cause and creator of Adam and Satan, Col 1:16

Yes, we all know God is the Creator

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So do you believe that ?

Of course. Why would you ask If I believe God is the creator?

Could Satan or Adam have sinned without being created ?

??? I do not do speculation or hypotheticals.

You are trying to get at something I suppose. I hope I am not understanding you here.

Could nonexistent beings sin? If they were not created they would not be here, would they?

You are not suggesting because God is the creator He is the blame or cause for all sin?
If you are asking any such question I think we need to see God's revelation of Himself.
Deut32:
2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3 Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment:
a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments
, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )

Secondly did God create them for His purpose and capacitated them for His Purpose ?

Do you mean like Pharoah?
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 

[AustinC]

One of less than 10, versus more than 50. Note how even the word loophole is redefined by those attacking truth.

Van, you are certainly one of the greatest proclaimers of victimhood I have known. Thankfully people here can read.

 

[Iconoclast]

"Hackberry,

Hello H,

Predestination is confusing to me.

It does not need to be.

When someone believes in Jesus by God-given faith, God has predestined that from that point onward The Spirit will work in that person conforming him to the image of Jesus.
It is that simple.

What aspects do you find confusing?

I do not believe it is meant to be confusing. Do not overthink it.
Keep in mind these teachings have blessed and comforted the saints since the first century.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If my name was not written in the book before the foundation of the world, but I accidentally get ahold of a copy of the Gospel of John, should I read it? If I do read it and want to be saved, is salvation possible for me? Predestination is confusing to me.

Have you been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life and found your name missing? No? Well don't worry about it. Proverbs 3:5 applies.

 

[Van]

Van, you are certainly one of the greatest proclaimers of victimhood I have known. Thankfully people here can read.

Sir, I present truth to the best of my ability.

 

[Van]

Dispite all the posters blowing smokescreed, names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from" or since creation, and not before. This is the truth so desperately being evaded. Ask yourselves why if we were chosen individually before the foundation of the world were our names written since the foundation of the world. MacArthur might tell you to accept the paradox. This is the same sort of line cult leaders tell their victims.

What is the actual answer to the dilemma? Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, individuals have been and are being chosen from or since the foundation of the world. Since scripture (1 Peter 2:9-10) precludes individual election before creation, the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate, when God chose His Redeemer, He chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. The gospel is simple and straightforward and understandable even to children.

 

[AustinC]

Sir, I present truth to the best of my ability.

I do not doubt this statement of yours.

 

[AustinC]

Dispite all the posters blowing smokescreed, names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from" or since creation, and not before. This is the truth so desperately being evaded. Ask yourselves why if we were chosen individually before the foundation of the world were our names written since the foundation of the world. MacArthur might tell you to accept the paradox. This is the same sort of line cult leaders tell their victims.

What is the actual answer to the dilemma? Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, individuals have been and are being chosen from or since the foundation of the world. Since scripture (1 Peter 2:9-10) precludes individual election before creation, the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate, when God chose His Redeemer, He chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. The gospel is simple and straightforward and understandable even to children.

Van, notice how you changed what the Bible actually says and actually, openly, disagree with the Bible.
You wrote:
Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, individuals have been and are being chosen from or since the foundation of the world.

The Bible says:
Ephesians 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

As for your "corporate" election theory, you have promoted this untenable theory for years and literally no one agrees with you on the entire BB that I have read. Do you really think the entire body of Christ is wrong and only you are correct?

 

[37818]

Mediator of what?
How does this passage inform us as to what you mean?

Has to do with God being distinct Persons yet there is only the one uncaused God and that the distinct Persons who are that one uncaused God. God is omnipresent. The Person aka the Word was the agent of cause and changed being both with God and being God too. As such He mediates between God and creation being the sole Creator as God, being He is both with God and God too. John 1:1-2 and John 1:3 being sole Creator.

 

[Alcott]

Just that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man are not enemies in His Word. So they should be friends. And nobody has to reconcile friends. Even if you can't explain their friendship.

What possibly was mans responsibility before the foundation of the world friend ?

Presumably the same thing as writing names in the Book of Life before when there was no such person. That is, in time as we know it. For us, it is a boundary; for God it is not

 

[Van]

As for your "corporate" election theory, you have promoted this untenable theory for years and literally no one agrees with you on the entire BB that I have read. Do you really think the entire body of Christ is wrong and only you are correct?

1) I present what the Bible actually says and not the perversion based on Calvinism's presumptions.

2) To deny the rather mainstream view that the election of Ephesians 1:4 was corporate is to obviously embrace falsehood.

3) To claim I might think the "entire body of Christ is wrong" is just another personal attack, another use of logical fallacy to promote false doctrine.

4) Note once again, absolutely no rebuttal to the fact 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes individual election before creation.

Despite all the posters blowing smokescreed, names are written in the Lamb's book of life "from" or since creation, and not before. This is the truth so desperately being evaded. Ask yourselves why if we were chosen individually before the foundation of the world were our names written since the foundation of the world. MacArthur might tell you to accept the paradox. This is the same sort of line cult leaders tell their victims.

What is the actual answer to the dilemma? Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, individuals have been and are being chosen from or since the foundation of the world. Since scripture (1 Peter 2:9-10) precludes individual election before creation, the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate, when God chose His Redeemer, He chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem, thus He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. The gospel is simple and straightforward and understandable even to children.

 

[Brightfame52]

Just that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man are not enemies in His Word. So they should be friends. And nobody has to reconcile friends. Even if you can't explain their friendship.



Presumably the same thing as writing names in the Book of Life before when there was no such person. That is, in time as we know it. For us, it is a boundary; for God it is not

God knows a person before they exist, how could they act responsibly if they didnt exist ? If God writes a persons name in the book of life before they exist, it means He did it simply because He willed to do it. It was Grace !