Biblical Chastening

[DHK]

We only need to observe the life of David to prove God chastizes in this life. It is kind of like the ridiculous argument that rears every now and then that Christians cannot sin. Look at David.

The people in the Bible are there to teach us something, not just stories to memorize.

Read the life of David careflully. Many times he was chastized of the Lord, and sometimes quite severly so. David was a man after God's own heart, the only one in Scripture to be named as such. The difference between David and others is that when David sinned he repented of his sin. When he was corrected he accepted it.

 

[Brother Bob]

I thought your sins were paid for at the cross, why the chastisement? Why the advocate if we do sin? Did all of a sudden you sins were not paid for?

 

[npetreley]

I thought your sins were paid for at the cross, why the chastisement? Why the advocate if we do sin? Did all of a sudden you sins were not paid for?

According to ME, the only sins that are paid for are those you commit up until you're saved. After that, you either have to confess them or pay for them yourself in hell/outer darkness/lake of fire/insert ME theory here.

 

[saturneptune]

Read the life of David careflully. Many times he was chastized of the Lord, and sometimes quite severly so. David was a man after God's own heart, the only one in Scripture to be named as such. The difference between David and others is that when David sinned he repented of his sin. When he was corrected he accepted it.

Psalm 51 is a particularly good example of repentance by David.

 

[saturneptune]

According to ME, the only sins that are paid for are those you commit up until you're saved. After that, you either have to confess them or pay for them yourself in hell/outer darkness/lake of fire/insert ME theory here.

The purpose of chastizment is not to pay for sins. They are already paid for by the finished work of Jesus. The purpose of chastizement is for God to get your attention when one ignores the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I think (thank) chastizement is part of the sanctification process.

 

[npetreley]

Just curious -- if the cross only paid for the sins we commit before we're saved, isn't that a bizarre form of limited atonement?

 

[saturneptune]

Limited atonement (if one believes that point) has to do with the number of individuals, not a time span.

 

[James_Newman]

Psalms 32:1-2
1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Interesting thing about David is that even though his sins were forgiven, he still suffered chastening for them.

2 Samuel 12:13-14
13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Is this 'paying for' his sin?

 

[Brother Bob]

According to ME, the only sins that are paid for are those you commit up until you're saved. After that, you either have to confess them or pay for them yourself in hell/outer darkness/lake of fire/insert ME theory here.

Or, you were never saved to start with, then you would go to hell except you repent and be born again.

Hbr 6:4For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hbr 6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

 

[TCGreek]

Limited atonement (if one believes that point) has to do with the number of individuals, not a time span.

1. As someone who believes in Particular Atonement, you have given too narrow of a view of it.

2. Particular Atonement takes care of the sins sinners, past, present and future. That's the complete concept of it.

 

[saturneptune]

1. As someone who believes in Particular Atonement, you have given too narrow of a view of it.

2. Particular Atonement takes care of the sins sinners, past, present and future. That's the complete concept of it.

I agree with that statement. I didnt word it too well. There is no time element in this concept like there is no time element in Christ's forgiveness, as the so called ME crowd says.

Also, I agree with your view of limited attonement. (Particular). I absolutely refuse to get in a Calvin-free will debate. It produces nothing, changes no minds, and the rants go on forever.

 

[npetreley]

Or, you were never saved to start with, then you would go to hell except you repent and be born again.

Hbr 6:4For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hbr 6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

This makes no sense in terms of ME. If you can pay for your sins by spending 1,000 years in hell, then you don't put Him to open shame, since you took care of the debt, yourself. Not that ME makes any sense, anyway, but that seems to contradict this passage in Hebrews.

 

[James_Newman]

Would you go to a party and ignore the host? Why would you invade a thread started by someone you considered a 'heretic' and have them on ignore? Heretic or not, manners are always appreciated.

 

[saturneptune]

How do you put someone on ignore?

 

[npetreley]

How do you put someone on ignore?

Go to their profile, and you will see the option to put them on ignore. I believe it's in the bar on the right. I don't understand why it isn't easier than that. You get an option right on a post to REMOVE someone from ignore, but (unless I missed something) you have to go the profile to PLACE someone on ignore. Go figure.

 

[James_Newman]

You'd have to ask npetreley, he uses it the most I think.

 

[TCGreek]

I agree with that statement. I didnt word it too well. There is no time element in this concept like there is no time element in Christ's forgiveness, as the so called ME crowd says.

Also, I agree with your view of limited attonement. (Particular). I absolutely refuse to get in a Calvin-free will debate. It produces nothing, changes no minds, and the rants go on forever.

1. Like prayer, the Atonement as it applies to our sins must be viewed in the same matter. Before we pray, God already knows what we need before we ask, prayer shows our dependence on God and glorifies God (Ps 50:15).

2. When we sin and confess them, it shows our dependence on God and glorifies him, but those sins have already been paid for (1 John 2:12)

3. We need to believe that the Atonement of Christ accomplish something.

 

[npetreley]

1. Like prayer, the Atonement as it applies to our sins must be viewed in the same matter. Before we pray, God already knows what we need before we ask, prayer shows our dependence on God and glorifies God (Ps 50:15).

2. When we sin and confess them, it shows our dependence on God and glorifies him, but those sins have already been paid for (1 John 2:12)

3. We need to believe that the Atonement of Christ accomplish something.

Exactly. This is an excellent view of both prayer and atonement, IMO.

 

[saturneptune]

1. Like prayer, the Atonement as it applies to our sins must be viewed in the same matter. Before we pray, God already knows what we need before we ask, prayer shows our dependence on God and glorifies God (Ps 50:15).

2. When we sin and confess them, it shows our dependence on God and glorifies him, but those sins have already been paid for (1 John 2:12)

3. We need to believe that the Atonement of Christ accomplish something.

Excellent post. The ME whatever it is takes away from your third point.

 

[James_Newman]

1. Like prayer, the Atonement as it applies to our sins must be viewed in the same matter. Before we pray, God already knows what we need before we ask, prayer shows our dependence on God and glorifies God (Ps 50:15).

2. When we sin and confess them, it shows our dependence on God and glorifies him, but those sins have already been paid for (1 John 2:12)

3. We need to believe that the Atonement of Christ accomplish something.

What did the atonement of Christ accomplish? I think some would believe that every penalty for sin was wrapped up at the cross, but if that were so, how could God still chasten us for sin? How was David still chastened for his sin after God forgave him and put away his sin? I believe in the full atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross, and that those who are under the blood will not pay for their sins on the last day, but daily consequences were obviously not part of the atonement and there is no principle that denies God the right to chasten us after death either.