Are we now under grace then or law?
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Calvinism and Aminianism and their influence on Adventist belief
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Lets turn to scripture..
Romans 6:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Again, are we saved by the Grace of God or by keeping the Law. such as keeping Sabbath?
Hobie
Well-Known Member
The key here is we do it out of love, as Christ told us:
Matthew 22:33-40 King James Version (KJV)
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
1 John 2:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
We are saved by grace , correct? All that that need to do is to trust and receive Jesus as Lord thru faith alone, correct?
Hobie
Well-Known Member
That is thru faith alone, but then the sanctification that occurs is the Holy Spirit must bear its fruit within the believer, or:
Luke 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 3:7-10 King James Version (KJV)
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 7:15-19 King James Version (KJV)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
37818
Well-Known Member
Those do not believe in God's Christ. They are ones who are never known by Christ, for which Christ says to them, "I never knew you: . . ."
37818
Well-Known Member
No. Matthew 7:21-23. Rather as Christ, 1 John 5:1.
Yes, as we cannot use this passage to show one can lose their salvation!
The good news is saved by grace alone thru faith alone, correct?
Hobie
Well-Known Member
So how can 'you' tell those that Christ knows...
1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Do you see the Sabbath keeping as being a way "to know?"
37818
Well-Known Member
Rewards for one's works, not our salvation because of works.
yes, eternal rewards, but not whether we have eternal life!
37818
Well-Known Member
One's self, knowing God and that one does not merit one's own salvation. 1 John 5:9-13.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
So God judges, not man, and it is the fruits (works) of the Spirit that He judges, and it is the result of truly accepting Christ not just saying you do. So works shows faith...
James 2:14-26 King James Version (KJV)
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Particular
Well-Known Member
No doubt. Self-identification is not the determiner of faith. God must make a person alive with Christ and gift that person with faith. Faith will do the good works which God has ordained for the believer. (Ephesians 4-10)
God identifies His own and seals His own. He promises He will never leave nor forsake the child He has adopted.
37818
Well-Known Member
First, explain God judging one for the very thing (fruit) He gives them by His Spirit? (Galatians 5:22-23?)
Now are you ingorant of the fact that Abraham was Justified by his work many (30-50) years latter Genesis 22:12? Abraham being first justified without works, Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:4-5? That the latter justification does not negate the first? That the promise according to faith without works was 430 years before the Law, Galatians 3:16-1? ". . . Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. . . ." And so James warns, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
37818
Well-Known Member
The God's grace precedes the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit which precedes faith, and faith precides salvation, and salvation precedes its works.
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Good works are evidence that one has been saved now by the Grace of God, but not part at all of that saving act by God!