Calvinism and Aminianism and their influence on Adventist belief

[Yeshua1]

". . . , I never knew you: . . ."

yes, never were in a Covenant relationship with Jesus, so cannot lose what never had!

 

[Yeshua1]

Amen, we must not draw back, may God help our lack of faith.

Those who are really saved can never fall away, as we have now Imperishable seed within us, and also have been sealed by Holy Spirit, sealing which cannot be broken!

 

[Yeshua1]

Need to keep in mind that many who claim they believe are still in the clasp of evil and iniquity and are blind to it...

Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They were never saved, as same Jesus said that he will never forsake or lose those who come to him to be saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

We need to turn to Gods Word for the answer...

Hebrews 10:26-31 King James Version (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Do you hold to Ellen white doctrine of there being final Investigative judgment to see if we really merited eternal life?

 

[37818]

@Hobie

Bible believing Christians typically agree what is said is true. But points of disagreement are do to different presuppositions in understanding a text.

 

[Hobie]

@Hobie

Bible believing Christians typically agree what is said is true. But points of disagreement are do to different presuppositions in understanding a text.

Yes, but Christ will judge at the end, not man. And many Christians are told its ok to worship idols, and follow false traditions, etc.. and they think they are saved and are following Christ when in reality they are going down another path.

 

[Hobie]

Those who are really saved can never fall away, as we have now Imperishable seed within us, and also have been sealed by Holy Spirit, sealing which cannot be broken!

The Jews thought the same thing and yet they were following those who were not sent by God, who were deceiving them much as is happening today:

Jeremiah 29:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the Lord.
10 For thus saith the Lord, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Now we see that God sees the future so He knows who will be lost and those saves, but knowing does not mean He is unjust and takes away His offer of eternal life to those who will be lost, look at Judas.

Romans 8:28-31 King James Version (KJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Even though God has known from the beginning, He has laid out before people clear warnings against sin, and has provided them with all the necessary means for avoiding it. But God cannot interfere with man’s freedom of choice without depriving him of his freewill and making him the same as a robot.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Jews thought the same thing and yet they were following those who were not sent by God, who were deceiving them much as is happening today:

Jeremiah 29:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the Lord.
10 For thus saith the Lord, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Now we see that God sees the future so He knows who will be lost and those saves, but knowing does not mean He is unjust and takes away His offer of eternal life to those who will be lost, look at Judas.

Romans 8:28-31 King James Version (KJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Even though God has known from the beginning, He has laid out before people clear warnings against sin, and has provided them with all the necessary means for avoiding it. But God cannot interfere with man’s freedom of choice without depriving him of his freewill and making him the same as a robot.

Judas was never saved, and God seals us by the Holy Spirit, and NONE can break that seal!

 

[37818]

Yes, but Christ will judge at the end, not man. And many Christians are told its ok to worship idols, and follow false traditions, etc.. and they think they are saved and are following Christ when in reality they are going down another path.

Are you aware in the Revelation it is explicit as to who will and will not perish?

". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ." Revelation 20:15.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, but Christ will judge at the end, not man. And many Christians are told its ok to worship idols, and follow false traditions, etc.. and they think they are saved and are following Christ when in reality they are going down another path.

Supreme Irony here is that one would following the false teachings and doctrine of someone like Ellen White, and yet still post this!

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you aware in the Revelation it is explicit as to who will and will not perish?

". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ." Revelation 20:15.

he holds to the Ellen White Final investigative Judgement, where some will lose eternal life and get burned away!

 

[Hobie]

Judas was never saved, and God seals us by the Holy Spirit, and NONE can break that seal!

That is the key, even if Judas would not be saved, Christ still accepted Him, knowing what was to come.

John 6:68-71 King James Version (KJV)
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

 

[Hobie]

Are you aware in the Revelation it is explicit as to who will and will not perish?

". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ." Revelation 20:15.

And yet Moses asked to be blotted out of it if God could not forgive the people:

Exodus 32:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

And we see it in the NT...
Revelation 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is the key, even if Judas would not be saved, Christ still accepted Him, knowing what was to come.

John 6:68-71 King James Version (KJV)
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

he was not saved, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

And yet Moses asked to be blotted out of it if God could not forgive the people:

Exodus 32:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

And we see it in the NT...
Revelation 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Moses book was the book regarding physical life, so moses was asking to have God put him to death for sake of the people, while lambs book are those eternally secured in Christ, referring to spiritual life!

 

[Hobie]

he was not saved, correct?

Christ gives the offer to all, we are free to choose. I came across this study on Judas which can be applied even to Christians...

"Luke tells us that Jesus called “the twelve” together—that included Judas—and “gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal” (Luke 9:1–2).

Judas Iscariot was a gospel preacher! He was given the gift of healing, and he exercised authority over demons. Active involvement in ministry is a good and wonderful thing; but it is not, in itself, a guarantee of spiritual life or health."...4 Things We Can Learn from Judas

 

[Hobie]

Moses book was the book regarding physical life, so moses was asking to have God put him to death for sake of the people, while lambs book are those eternally secured in Christ, referring to spiritual life!

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ gives the offer to all, we are free to choose. I came across this study on Judas which can be applied even to Christians...

"Luke tells us that Jesus called “the twelve” together—that included Judas—and “gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal” (Luke 9:1–2).

Judas Iscariot was a gospel preacher! He was given the gift of healing, and he exercised authority over demons. Active involvement in ministry is a good and wonderful thing; but it is not, in itself, a guarantee of spiritual life or health."...4 Things We Can Learn from Judas

he was never saved, as he was only person who hadsatan himself possess him!

 

[Yeshua1]

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

ONLY lost sinners in that judgment!

 

[Hobie]

ONLY lost sinners in that judgment!

And yet you can be taken out...
Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.