• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Calvinism and Arminianism foreknowledge compared with respect to time

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Derf B

Active Member
37818 said:
He knows. Even the very state of every sub-atomic particle. Hebrews 1:3.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. What about a sub-atomic particle that comes into being? Does He just know it, or does He somehow observe it? I couldn’t find much reference to subatomic particles in Hebrews.

Let’s say for just a moment that a scientist were to perform an experiment in which he created a runaway nuclear fission event, with lots of alpha and beta particles being created. Did God know before the foundation of the world how many particles would be created by that experiment? And whether that scientist would die of that experiment due to radiation poisoning?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Derf B said:
Agreed! God is not responsible for every evil thought and deed. But He created all “things” in heaven and earth. He created people who can have their own thoughts, and can act out in evil or in righteousness. If in evil, they need to repent of the deeds they performed.

What do you do with Jer 19:4-5 The people of Judah stopped worshiping me and made this valley into a place of worship for Baal and other gods that have never helped them or their ancestors or their kings. And they have committed murder here, burning their young, innocent children as sacrifices to Baal. I have never even thought of telling you to do that.?
Click to expand...
This happened according to God’s eternal decree. But it was not part of the Law he gave the Jews. And God never entertained the thought to make it part of the Law.

You need to worship and Love God as he presents himself, not as you present him.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Derf B said:
If I’m not humble enough, according to you, it’s because God wants me to be proud.
Click to expand...
“When pride cometh, then cometh shame: But with the lowly is wisdom.” Proverbs 11:2 (KJV 1900)

“Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, And before honour is humility.” Proverbs 18:12 (KJV 1900)

“A man’s pride shall bring him low: But honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.” Proverbs 29:23 (KJV 1900)

“Pride goeth before destruction, And an haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18 (KJV 1900)
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Derf B said:
Did God have a choice whether to decree or not? If He’s only complete with His decree, then He’s incomplete without it. And if His decree includes the creation of mankind, including you, then You’ve just said God needs You to be whole.
Click to expand...
His decree is perfect and therefore unchangeable.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Revelation is symbolic, not literal. You add to the book by making it literal.
Click to expand...
The book Revelation is both with its symbolic and its literal. All texts must be first understood literally in order to discern the text's symbolic meanings where being used from what is the actual literal meanings. The book Revelation is known to literally explain symbolic meaning, Revelation 1:20, ". . . The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. . . ."
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
The book Revelation is both with its symbolic and its literal. All texts must be first understood literally in order to discern the text's symbolic meanings where being used from what is the actual literal meanings. The book Revelation is known to literally explain symbolic meaning, Revelation 1:20, ". . . The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. . . ."
Click to expand...
Forced literalism is misleading.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Derf B said:
Hmmm. What about a sub-atomic particle that comes into being? Does He just know it, or does He somehow observe it? I couldn’t find much reference to subatomic particles in Hebrews.

Let’s say for just a moment that a scientist were to perform an experiment in which he created a runaway nuclear fission event, with lots of alpha and beta particles being created. Did God know before the foundation of the world how many particles would be created by that experiment? And whether that scientist would die of that experiment due to radiation poisoning?
Click to expand...
God's omniscience is uncondtional and absolute. Only by way of His Son, His Son limits His omniscience per His Father, and His Son sets all conditions accordingly, John 1:3. Which serves as an evidence that the Son and the Father, while being the very same God are distinct persons. A key example is Acts of the Apostles 1:7, ". . . It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." And so we read in Mark 13:32, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

God not only absolutely and unconditionally foreknows, but cannot not see events which take place in His omnipresence. Acts of the Apostles 17:28, "In Him we live and move and have our being . . . ."

So Jesus warns, Matthew 12:36, ". . . But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

So again, God both absolute uncondtionally foreknows what He will also see when it takes place in our time.

Now one more thing to keep in mind: We as Christians know God, Romans 8:9. The Lost do not yet know God, Ephesians 2:12. And the perishing never knew God. So genine Christians never become ex-Christians because of actually knowing God.
 
Last edited:
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
What does that mean? Without the literal, symbolic meanings cannot exist. Words have meaning in order to understand what is symbolic. Without literal meanings words are nonsense.
Click to expand...
Jesus fulfilled the first coming prophecies literally, so why not same for second coming?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
OT Prophet saw a coming messianic Age, not in that yet!
Click to expand...
They did not understand what they saw.
“For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” Luke 10:24 (KJV 1900)
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
What does that mean? Without the literal, symbolic meanings cannot exist. Words have meaning in order to understand what is symbolic. Without literal meanings words are nonsense.
Click to expand...
Forced literalism is sin. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top