Calvinism and the Unpardonable Sin

[Silverhair]

Who is Doctor Wilson that I should hold his opinion? Has he ever read the writings of the Prophets and Apostles in the Bible?

The basis for my belief is in the Bible. I have never read one line from Augustine. Please consider the very real possibility that so called Calvinism is actually fundamental Bible truths. It might change your prejudice.

Your comments just shows your prejudice.

Dr. Wilson graduated as a medical doctor from the University of Texas system, followed by an Orthopedic Residency and Hand Fellowship. He then taught as a full-time academic professor at Oregon’s medical school for many years. While maintaining his hand surgery practice, Dr. Wilson decided to pursue theology. He graduated magna cum laude from Faith Lutheran Seminary with a M.Div. degree, then magna cum laude from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary with a Th.M. degree. Dr. Wilson attended The University of Oxford in the United Kingdom where he received his doctorate in theology with the thesis, “Augustine’s Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to ‘Non-free Free Will’: A Comprehensive Methodology.“

I have looked at your "so called calvinism" and no it is not the biblical truth. If it were then I would be a calvinist. Have you ever considered that you may be wrong about calvinism?

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, you can have the last word. You have become a clanging gong with your prejudiced words.

That I will not agree with you seems to have caused you some discomfort. Have you lived your life in an echo chamber of calvinism? Has no one ever questioned your errant views?

I point out the glaring errors of your theology and you cut and run.

 

[taisto]

That I will not agree with you seems to have caused you some discomfort. Have you lived your life in an echo chamber of calvinism? Has no one ever questioned your errant views?

I point out the glaring errors of your theology and you cut and run.

The discomfort is in listening to you and knowing that you are missing out on so much blessing.
I wish you well on your journey, but you provide no spiritual benefit to my walk with God.

 

[kyredneck]

Bottom line for me is what does the bible say.

What the Bible says:
"So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth."

What Silverhair says:
"Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?"

What the Bible says back:
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?"

That is my foundation.

My repsonse:
ROFguffawing

 

[kyredneck]

My apologies if it is against the rules of the board.

You did nothing wrong, in fact you were spot on correct, and @Earth Wind and Fire has no right to chide you for it.

 

[kyredneck]

The discomfort is in listening to you and knowing that you are missing out on so much blessing.

It is indeed a blessing, a gift to know these things.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You did nothing wrong, in fact you were spot on correct, and @Earth Wind and Fire has no right to chide you for it.

Prove it, the guy said point blank that Silverhair hates God. Now if that’s not a blatant accusation and an overreach then what is it?

 

[kyredneck]

Prove it, the guy said point blank that Silverhair hates God. Now if that’s not a blatant accusation and an overreach then what is it?

@taisto explained it perfectly:

How can a person love God and hate His authority to do as He pleases in your life at the same time? I don't see how one can demand to be ruler of their life and still call Jesus Lord and ruler at the same time.

...and he spot on nails it concerning @Silverhair here:

Silverhair, you can have the last word. You have become a clanging gong with your prejudiced words.

Get sucked into one of Silverhair's rabbit holes and that's what you get, a "clanging gong" of insults to your intelligence.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your comments just shows your prejudice.

Dr. Wilson graduated as a medical doctor from the University of Texas system, followed by an Orthopedic Residency and Hand Fellowship. He then taught as a full-time academic professor at Oregon’s medical school for many years. While maintaining his hand surgery practice, Dr. Wilson decided to pursue theology. He graduated magna cum laude from Faith Lutheran Seminary with a M.Div. degree, then magna cum laude from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary with a Th.M. degree. Dr. Wilson attended The University of Oxford in the United Kingdom where he received his doctorate in theology with the thesis, “Augustine’s Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to ‘Non-free Free Will’: A Comprehensive Methodology.“

I have looked at your "so called calvinism" and no it is not the biblical truth. If it were then I would be a calvinist. Have you ever considered that you may be wrong about calvinism?

I hardly see how one academic and his thesis on Augustine has any bearing on anything. So what you do here is pull this Dr Wilson from the archives as a kind of proof text to your theories that Calvinism is bad and make statements that it’s based on Roman Catholic paganism?!? That’s quite a reach! Then you further attempt to solidify by saying if it were true than you’d be a Calvinist… well how transparent is that!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@taisto explained it perfectly:

The explanation is sound, but the accusation is an overreach.

 

[Silverhair]

What the Bible says:
"So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth."

What Silverhair says:
"Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?"

What the Bible says back:
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?"



My repsonse:
ROFguffawing

KY you continue to pull verses out of context which seems to be a calvinist trait. Doing that you can make the bible support just about any view you want. You may know where to find the verses but you do not understand what the verses in context are saying to you.

 

[Silverhair]

I hardly see how one academic and his thesis on Augustine has any bearing on anything. So what you do here is pull this Dr Wilson from the archives as a kind of proof text to your theories that Calvinism is bad and make statements that it’s based on Roman Catholic paganism?!? That’s quite a reach! Then you further attempt to solidify by saying if it were true than you’d be a Calvinist… well how transparent is that!

EWF do your own research regarding Augustine if you think that what I have presented is wrong. But I doubt you or any of the other calvinists on here will do that as it would shake your foundations. Calvinism is wrong because it is based on pagan philosophy that Augustine brought into the church and Calvin and later calvinists promoted. The RCC was not the source of the paganism but you would know that if you did some reasearch.
I have not concluded that calvinism is wrong based on Dr.Wilson's work. I came to that conclusion when I compared calvinism to the bible.

If you came to believe that calvinism is a false theology are you saying that you would still be a calvinist?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF do your own research regarding Augustine if you think that what I have presented is wrong. But I doubt you or any of the other calvinists on here will do that as it would shake your foundations. Calvinism is wrong because it is based on pagan philosophy that Augustine brought into the church and Calvin and later calvinists promoted. The RCC was not the source of the paganism but you would know that if you did some reasearch.
I have not concluded that calvinism is wrong based on Dr.Wilson's work. I came to that conclusion when I compared calvinism to the bible.

If you came to believe that calvinism is a false theology are you saying that you would still be a calvinist?

I’ve never been a Calvinist. I have been a Roman Catholic for 35 years… more to the fact, a lax one for years. Because of all the religious nuts, I could always tell they were corrupt on every level however I couldn’t say it was because of paganism it was primarily due to Constantine legitimizing them as the state religion… but you can research that yourself.

 

[Silverhair]

I’ve never been a Calvinist. I have been a Roman Catholic for 35 years… more to the fact, a lax one for years. Because of all the religious nuts, I could always tell they were corrupt on every level however I couldn’t say it was because of paganism it was primarily due to Constantine legitimizing them as the state religion… but you can research that yourself.

If I were so inclined but I have no interest in the RCC but as for Constantine yes he did bring more corruption into an already bad system.

 

[Silverhair]

@taisto explained it perfectly:



...and he spot on nails it concerning @Silverhair here:



Get sucked into one of Silverhair's rabbit holes and that's what you get, a "clanging gong" of insults to your intelligence.

Actually KY I am just asking you to use your intelligence but it seems you are more comfortable with a deterministic theology that tells you what to think.

 

[Silverhair]

The discomfort is in listening to you and knowing that you are missing out on so much blessing.
I wish you well on your journey, but you provide no spiritual benefit to my walk with God.

Actually you do not even seem to understand your own theology. If, as calvinists posit, God has determined all that will happen down to the movement of a molecule then I am not a calvinist because God has given me the free will to choose not to believe that theology.

Whereas for you it has been determined that you will believe it. Although in your case you can not know if anything you believe is true. Whatever you think or do has all been decreed by the god you have been determined to follow.

I would say you should think through to it's logical conclusion what your theology teaches but you are not able to do that under your calvinst view.

 

[taisto]

"My own theology"
Christ died to redeem sinners. Christ redeems every person the Father has given Him. He will redeem everyone and not lose them. God desires to save all that He gives to Jesus and God will accomplish what He wills. The entire Bible tells the story of Jesus as the promised Redeemer and present Redeemer of all whom Jesus has saved by grace.

One can think that they are able to act in a way that could deny God His ability to save whomever He wills. That thought would not be supported anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Silverhair]

"My own theology"
Christ died to redeem sinners. Christ redeems every person the Father has given Him. He will redeem everyone and not lose them. God desires to save all that He gives to Jesus and God will accomplish what He wills. The entire Bible tells the story of Jesus as the promised Redeemer and present Redeemer of all whom Jesus has saved by grace.

One can think that they are able to act in a way that could deny God His ability to save whomever He wills. That thought would not be supported anywhere in the Bible.

But a question for you, what do you do with these verses?

Is this not the will of God?
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.

Do you see this as excluding anyone from the love of God?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

Did Paul get this wrong when he told the jailer to just believe on Christ Jesus?
Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Was Paul correct when he said this?
Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

In light of 1Ti 2:3-4 and 1Ti 4:10 how to you view these verses?
Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Joh 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

 

[taisto]

But a question for you, what do you do with these verses?

Is this not the will of God?
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.

Do you see this as excluding anyone from the love of God?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

Did Paul get this wrong when he told the jailer to just believe on Christ Jesus?
Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Was Paul correct when he said this?
Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

In light of 1Ti 2:3-4 and 1Ti 4:10 how to you view these verses?
Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Joh 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

I rejoice in all these verses, knowing God is the one who began the work of faith and is the finisher of faith.

I notice that you really don't like looking at all of scripture. You pick your favorite verses that you can imagine give you the authority over God and then you quote them without any consideration of the whole of the letter. I saw you accuse a brother of ignoring context, but you have never once addressed context within a letter. That seems two-faced to me.

You truly provide no spiritual edification to me. You only act as an accuser. Can the leopard change its spots?

 

[Silverhair]

I rejoice in all these verses, knowing God is the one who began the work of faith and is the finisher of faith.

I notice that you really don't like looking at all of scripture. You pick your favorite verses that you can imagine give you the authority over God and then you quote them without any consideration of the whole of the letter. I saw you accuse a brother of ignoring context, but you have never once addressed context within a letter. That seems two-faced to me.

You truly provide no spiritual edification to me. You only act as an accuser. Can the leopard change its spots?

Dealing with context means understanding the verse in context not posting all the verses around it. Plus would an extended post have made those verses mean something different? NO. You are just grasping at straws so as to avoid the clear message of scripture, God will make salvation available to all but each person has to choose to accept the offer.

I agree that God is the start and finisher of faith in that He has provided the means of knowing Him be it creation, the gospel message, the conviction of the Holy Spirit etc. but it is still man that has to make the choice to trust in or reject Christ Jesus. God does not do it for them as calvinism would have it.

And you have not dealt with any of those verses have you. How can you say you rejoice in them when they show that your calvinism is wrong. Calvinism has a person saved before they believe or even know of Christ Jesus and these verse all show that one must believe before they are saved. I do not think you really understand your own theology.

So I will ask you again
What do you do with these verses?

Is this not the will of God?
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of everyone, and especially of those who believe.

Do you see this as excluding anyone from the love of God?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

Did Paul get this wrong when he told the jailer to just believe on Christ Jesus?
Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Was Paul correct when he said this?
Rom 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

In light of 1Ti 2:3-4 and 1Ti 4:10 how to you view these verses?
Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Gal 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Joh 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

The bible says we must believe in Christ Jesus before we are saved as these verses in context will show you.

But what does calvinism tell us about being saved
“A cardinal point of Reformed theology is the maxim: ‘Regeneration precedes faith.’
[R.C. Sproul Chosen By God, pp.72-73].
“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved”.
[L. Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Page 75]

This is clearly in opposition to what the bible says. So if you are going to support that view then provide the clear scripture that supports it.

To quote you "You truly provide no spiritual edification to me. You only act as an accuser. Can the leopard change its spots?"