Calvinism, Arminianism, how can we find what is the true doctrine from God?

[Wesley Briggman]

That is Calvinism, which is the antithesis of the Gospel.

Walpole, while I do not identify with Calvin because he was an anti-Semite, I find nothing scripturally incorrect with the TULIP acronym associated with Calvinism. Your charge against Calvinism is very strong and warrants a scriptural basis to support it.

Below is a previous post of mine (#55) giving scriptural support to each of the letters comprising the TULIP acronym. I challenge you to refute any one of these points with scripture.

In other words, put up or shut up.

In my original post, I asked for scripture that refutes the following scripture supporting TULIP. The result was negative.

TULIP

T of TULIP Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)


[Isa 64:6 ESV] 6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away..


[Jer 17:9 ESV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?



U of TULIP Unconditional Election

Rom 8:28 - 30 ESV - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


L of TULIP Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)

[Jhn 10:3-4 ESV] 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

[1Co 15:23 ESV] 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

[Phl 3:12 ESV] 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.


I of TULIP Irresistible Grace

[Jhn 6:37-40 ESV] 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."


[Tit 3:5-7 ESV] 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


P of TULIP Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

[Eph 1:13-14 ESV] 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

[Eph 4:30 ESV] 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Post #55

 

[Walpole]

Uncontrolled wrath? Hardly. God's wrath is precise.
How good do you imagine you are Walpole? Do you imagine you are as holy as God so that you stand before God with him reigning down praise on top of you?
How do you view yourself before God, Walpole?

Yes, the God of Calvinism is one who acts with pure will and uncontrolled wrath. He is remarkably similar to the God of Islam. He acts contra-Logos.

Here's Jesus words Walpole:

Luke 12:49-53 “I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled! I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished! Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

The God who lovingly and graciously atoned for his chosen children at the cross is ready to set the earth ablaze with his hatred for mankind's rebellion. Have you utterly failed to read scripture?

2 Peter 3:1-15 I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation.

The God who loves his children is coming, Walpole. Are you ready to meet Him?

The God who loves His man came so that they may have life. He loves man so much He became one. This is Christianity 101.

The God of Calvinism conquers hatred by unleashing more hatred, whereas the God of Christianity conquers sin by love. Calvin's God unleashes wrath on the most innocent, turning the Son into his personal whipping boy.

Yes, I am ready to meet Him.

"Come, Lord Jesus."

 

[Walpole]

Walpole, while I do not identify with Calvin because he was an anti-Semite, I find nothing scripturally incorrect with the TULIP acronym associated with Calvinism. Your charge against Calvinism is very strong and warrants a scriptural basis to support it.

Below is a previous post of mine (#55) giving scriptural support to each of the letters comprising the TULIP acronym. I challenge you to refute any one of these points with scripture.

In other words, put up or shut up.

Post #55

Put up what?

The God of Calvinism acts with pure will, and hence He is very similar to the God of Islam. It is only for a God who acts with pure will does TULIP work.

It is the antithesis of the God of Christianity, who is Logos.

 

[AustinC]

Yes, the God of Calvinism is one who acts with pure will and uncontrolled wrath. He is remarkably similar to the God of Islam. He acts contra-Logos.




The God who loves His man came so that they may have life. He loves man so much He became one. This is Christianity 101.

The God of Calvinism conquers hatred by unleashing more hatred, whereas the God of Christianity conquers sin by love. Calvin's God unleashes wrath on the most innocent, turning the Son into his personal whipping boy.

Yes, I am ready to meet Him.

"Come, Lord Jesus."

Your claims are made out of ignorance to the gospel. I showed you what Jesus said and what Peter confirms. You can keep making assertions, but with no scripture, they are empty.

As someone else told you, what John Calvin and others read in scripture is not some fiction. It's not a second hand catechism. It is what God declares.

So, you can believe what you wish, but what you assert has no scriptural support and is revealed in the fact that so many Roman Catholics are dead in their trespasses and sins. They cling to a legalism of works that falls short and brings their souls to hell with their churches teachings.

I wish you well for as long as you have breath.

 

[AustinC]

Put up what?

The God of Calvinism acts with pure will, and hence He is very similar to the God of Islam. It is only for a God who acts with pure will does TULIP work.

It is the antithesis of the God of Christianity, who is Logos.

Not even close. The God of Islam and Roman Catholicism is a God of legalistic works in an attempt to convince God to be merciful. Rituals, prayer beads and rote confessions all designed to discipline the body while doing nothing to redeem the spirit.
In both instances the follower of this legalistic view of God can never say they are saved and secure in God. Instead they must beat themselves into self-righteous submission on the hope that perhaps God might show them mercy at the moment of death.
No assurance, no confidence in Christ, no knowledge that the grace of God chose them and made them alive at the time of redemption.
Only unsure terror that they may have failed in the end.
That is the God of Roman Catholicism and Islam. You own that, Walpole

 

[Walpole]

Not even close. The God of Islam and Roman Catholicism is a God of legalistic works in an attempt to convince God to be merciful. Rituals, prayer beads and rote confessions all designed to discipline the body while doing nothing to redeem the spirit.
In both instances the follower of this legalistic view of God can never say they are saved and secure in God. Instead they must beat themselves into self-righteous submission on the hope that perhaps God might show them mercy at the moment of death.
No assurance, no confidence in Christ, no knowledge that the grace of God chose them and made them alive at the time of redemption.
Only unsure terror that they may have failed in the end.
That is the God of Roman Catholicism and Islam. You own that, Walpole

The similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism are nearly identical. For example, both believe God can and does act with pure will; both believe in God's determinism; both believe in God's fatalism; both believe God can and does deceive; both believe God is an iconoclast; both believe in divine dictation; both believe in sola Scriptura.

Here is the main difference between the God of Calvinism / Islam and the God of Christianity: God is either Logos or Voluntas; that is, either reason or pure will. In Calvinism / Islam, God acts with pure will, above and contra-reason. He is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism and Islam, God acts Voluntas.

In Christianity, He is the Logos, and thus by His nature He acts with reason and love. Therefore to not act in accordance with reason and love would be contrary to His very nature.


Other similarities between the God of Calvinism and Islam...

Fatalism ---> God actually creates some for the sole purpose in taking pleasure in their destruction. He dooms them from the womb for destruction and they are created for this sole purpose. For example...

“Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes, 3.23.6)

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” (Ibid, 3.21.5)

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

In Islam, God too creates some for destruction and takes pleasure by sending people to hell.



Deceptive ---> In Islam, God can and does deceive. Again, this is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. This nature of God is shared by Calvin, who too taught God can and does deceive. For example, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

So the reality is YOU have no assurance either. God may be deceiving you into thinking you are one of his elect, when in reality you may be one he created just to take pleasure in destroying.


Iconoclasm ---> Iconoclasm is a rejection of the Incarnation. By virtue of the Incarnation, God has revealed Himself to be the first and ultimate iconographer. By becoming man, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. In Christ, we now have the “image of the invisible God.” (cf. Col 1:15)

Icons are strictly prohibited in Islam, as well as in Calvinism.


Sola Scriptura ---> Adherents of Islam and Calvinists are sola Scriptura and both do believe in divine dictation. Mohammad was commanded to write and Calvin also taught divine dictation...

"But as the Lord was pleased that doctrine should exist in a clearer and more ample form, the better to satisfy weak consciences, he commanded the prophecies also to be committed to writing, and to be held part of his word. To these at the same time were added historical details, which are also the composition of prophets, but dictated by the Holy Spirit;" (Institutes, 4.8.6)


Calvinists, Jews, Muslims and Atheists are all enemies of the Incarnation and the Cross.

 

[utilyan]

If God ordained that I would not sin, I would not sin. God allows me to sin and to face the consequences of my sin.
Why? I can't answer that, but God certainly could answer if He chose to answer that question.
You see, utilyan, Sovereign rulers are under no obligation to answer their subjects or explain why they choose as they do. God, being the Sovereign Ruler over all, is not obligated to answer us at all. He chooses what he wills.
As his subject, will I complain and whine when my Lord doesn't answer my questions or will I joyfully serve him, though I receive no answer?

If God chose to vacuum my floor, He certainly could do so and I couldn't stop Him.

When God chose to send Covid19 throughout the entire world no one had the power to stop Him.
Instead of asking God why, I ask God..."For what purpose?". God has a purpose and that is to bring us to repentance or to bring us to judgment.

My God is King and I trust Him with all my life, utilyan.

A king gets his will will done.

No your God "sovereignty" and Your idea of God cannot control that.

Remember under your theology, God has mindwipe you himself, Doesn't matter if there is covid around or God showing up in person can't even convince a person.

Like a Robot. God has to hit the right switch.

You will. have to answer in the judgement for believing God is evil and stupid.

 

[Yeshua1]

God didn't want you to sin, you still sinned anyway.... control that.

You think God vacuumed your floor today? He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to.

Does God have judgement and wrath stored up for all who have rejected Jesus to save them from their sins?

 

[Yeshua1]

An angry God pouring out his uncontrolled wrath upon his naughty son and using him as his personal whipping boy is not the Gospel. That is Calvinism, which is the antithesis of the Gospel.

What Jesus did on the cross was the greatest act of love in history, not the act of a God raining down wrath upon the most innocent of all.

If Jesus Himself did not take in full your due penalty for sins, then you will have to!

 

[Yeshua1]

If God ordained that I would not sin, I would not sin. God allows me to sin and to face the consequences of my sin.
Why? I can't answer that, but God certainly could answer if He chose to answer that question.
You see, utilyan, Sovereign rulers are under no obligation to answer their subjects or explain why they choose as they do. God, being the Sovereign Ruler over all, is not obligated to answer us at all. He chooses what he wills.
As his subject, will I complain and whine when my Lord doesn't answer my questions or will I joyfully serve him, though I receive no answer?

If God chose to vacuum my floor, He certainly could do so and I couldn't stop Him.

When God chose to send Covid19 throughout the entire world no one had the power to stop Him.
Instead of asking God why, I ask God..."For what purpose?". God has a purpose and that is to bring us to repentance or to bring us to judgment.

My God is King and I trust Him with all my life, utilyan.

He really needs to read on the Potter and the Clay Paul discusses!

 

[Yeshua1]

The similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism are nearly identical. For example, both believe God can and does act with pure will; both believe in God's determinism; both believe in God's fatalism; both believe God can and does deceive; both believe God is an iconoclast; both believe in divine dictation; both believe in sola Scriptura.

Here is the main difference between the God of Calvinism / Islam and the God of Christianity: God is either Logos or Voluntas; that is, either reason or pure will. In Calvinism / Islam, God acts with pure will, above and contra-reason. He is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism and Islam, God acts Voluntas.

In Christianity, He is the Logos, and thus by His nature He acts with reason and love. Therefore to not act in accordance with reason and love would be contrary to His very nature.


Other similarities between the God of Calvinism and Islam...

Fatalism ---> God actually creates some for the sole purpose in taking pleasure in their destruction. He dooms them from the womb for destruction and they are created for this sole purpose. For example...

“Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes, 3.23.6)

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” (Ibid, 3.21.5)

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

In Islam, God too creates some for destruction and takes pleasure by sending people to hell.



Deceptive ---> In Islam, God can and does deceive. Again, this is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. This nature of God is shared by Calvin, who too taught God can and does deceive. For example, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

So the reality is YOU have no assurance either. God may be deceiving you into thinking you are one of his elect, when in reality you may be one he created just to take pleasure in destroying.


Iconoclasm ---> Iconoclasm is a rejection of the Incarnation. By virtue of the Incarnation, God has revealed Himself to be the first and ultimate iconographer. By becoming man, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. In Christ, we now have the “image of the invisible God.” (cf. Col 1:15)

Icons are strictly prohibited in Islam, as well as in Calvinism.


Sola Scriptura ---> Adherents of Islam and Calvinists are sola Scriptura and both do believe in divine dictation. Mohammad was commanded to write and Calvin also taught divine dictation...

"But as the Lord was pleased that doctrine should exist in a clearer and more ample form, the better to satisfy weak consciences, he commanded the prophecies also to be committed to writing, and to be held part of his word. To these at the same time were added historical details, which are also the composition of prophets, but dictated by the Holy Spirit;" (Institutes, 4.8.6)


Calvinists, Jews, Muslims and Atheists are all enemies of the Incarnation and the Cross.

BIG differences between God of Bible and Allah, as in Koran not ANY word describing God being love, and no way to atone for sins ever provided for, as all either heaven or hell before even born!
The "calvinist" God, God of the Bible, is love and also Holy and is Judge, so he provided a means to save lost sinners, but also judges all who reject that provision!
God is love, but also Holy and a Judge!

 

[AustinC]

The similarities between the nature of God in Islam and Calvinism are nearly identical. For example, both believe God can and does act with pure will; both believe in God's determinism; both believe in God's fatalism; both believe God can and does deceive; both believe God is an iconoclast; both believe in divine dictation; both believe in sola Scriptura.

Here is the main difference between the God of Calvinism / Islam and the God of Christianity: God is either Logos or Voluntas; that is, either reason or pure will. In Calvinism / Islam, God acts with pure will, above and contra-reason. He is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism and Islam, God acts Voluntas.

In Christianity, He is the Logos, and thus by His nature He acts with reason and love. Therefore to not act in accordance with reason and love would be contrary to His very nature.


Other similarities between the God of Calvinism and Islam...

Fatalism ---> God actually creates some for the sole purpose in taking pleasure in their destruction. He dooms them from the womb for destruction and they are created for this sole purpose. For example...

“Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction.” (John Calvin, Institutes, 3.23.6)

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” (Ibid, 3.21.5)

“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.” (Ibid, 3:21.6)

In Islam, God too creates some for destruction and takes pleasure by sending people to hell.



Deceptive ---> In Islam, God can and does deceive. Again, this is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. This nature of God is shared by Calvin, who too taught God can and does deceive. For example, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

So the reality is YOU have no assurance either. God may be deceiving you into thinking you are one of his elect, when in reality you may be one he created just to take pleasure in destroying.


Iconoclasm ---> Iconoclasm is a rejection of the Incarnation. By virtue of the Incarnation, God has revealed Himself to be the first and ultimate iconographer. By becoming man, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. In Christ, we now have the “image of the invisible God.” (cf. Col 1:15)

Icons are strictly prohibited in Islam, as well as in Calvinism.


Sola Scriptura ---> Adherents of Islam and Calvinists are sola Scriptura and both do believe in divine dictation. Mohammad was commanded to write and Calvin also taught divine dictation...

"But as the Lord was pleased that doctrine should exist in a clearer and more ample form, the better to satisfy weak consciences, he commanded the prophecies also to be committed to writing, and to be held part of his word. To these at the same time were added historical details, which are also the composition of prophets, but dictated by the Holy Spirit;" (Institutes, 4.8.6)


Calvinists, Jews, Muslims and Atheists are all enemies of the Incarnation and the Cross.

Far too long and splintered for me to address.

God is The Word (Logos). All Christians agree (that includes all Calvinist's, which you despise).

However, I have shared the Logos with you continually and you keep repelling from the Logos and assert, instead, empty assertions not shared by the Logos. All Christians reading our dialogue, no matter where they land in their theology, can go through the thread and see how the Logos has been shared with you.
Your response to the Logos is entirely on you.
The God you have fashioned is not the God who is the Logos. If He was, the Logos would say so. This, is therefore the difference between the Reformed and the Roman Catholic. The Reformed go to the Logos for answers. The Roman Catholic goes to church tradition and catechism for answers.

 

[Yeshua1]

Far too long and splintered for me to address.

God is The Word (Logos). All Christians agree (that includes all Calvinist's, which you despise).

However, I have shared the Logos with you continually and you keep repelling from the Logos and assert, instead, empty assertions not shared by the Logos. All Christians reading our dialogue, no matter where they land in their theology, can go through the thread and see how the Logos has been shared with you.
Your response to the Logos is entirely on you.
The God you have fashioned is not the God who is the Logos. If He was, the Logos would say so. This, is therefore the difference between the Reformed and the Roman Catholic. The Reformed go to the Logos for answers. The Roman Catholic goes to church tradition and catechism for answers.

And since Rome despises Pauline Justification, preach another Gospel!

 

[AustinC]

A king gets his will will done.

No your God "sovereignty" and Your idea of God cannot control that.

Remember under your theology, God has mindwipe you himself, Doesn't matter if there is covid around or God showing up in person can't even convince a person.

Like a Robot. God has to hit the right switch.

You will. have to answer in the judgement for believing God is evil and stupid.

This is all your figment of imagination about what God has revealed in scripture and therefore it is your accusation against God, not me.

 

[Walpole]

Far too long and splintered for me to address.

God is The Word (Logos). All Christians agree (that includes all Calvinist's, which you despise).

However, I have shared the Logos with you continually and you keep repelling from the Logos and assert, instead, empty assertions not shared by the Logos. All Christians reading our dialogue, no matter where they land in their theology, can go through the thread and see how the Logos has been shared with you.
Your response to the Logos is entirely on you.
The God you have fashioned is not the God who is the Logos. If He was, the Logos would say so. This, is therefore the difference between the Reformed and the Roman Catholic. The Reformed go to the Logos for answers. The Roman Catholic goes to church tradition and catechism for answers.

You've presented not the Logos, but the God of Calvinism, who is a God of Voluntas, arbitrarily electing some while creating others for the sheer pleasure in destroying.

You don't even know if you are one of Calvin's elect, as his God can deceive people into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them in the end.

Whether you are eternal pulp wood or elect is as good as a flip of the coin in Calvinism. By contrast, the God of Christianity (Orthodoxy and Catholicism) offers ALL men salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

[Walpole]

The idea of God unleashing His wrath on a naughty Jesus (a.k.a. penal substitution) is a Calvinist belief, not a Christian one. The Christian understanding of the passion is that it is the greatest act of love, not wrath. Needless to say Calvin's doctrine of penal substitution, with God pouring out wrath and rage on his naughty Son, stands in stark contrast to the Christian understanding of the act of Christ's offering of Himself to the Father out of love...

John 10:18 ---> "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Ephesians 5:2 ---> "...and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma."

Hebrews 9:14 ---> "...how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God."


Calvin's Penal substitution destroys the Trinity (dividing God against Himself) and makes God an unjust monster, unleashing wrath on the most innocent of all. Here is a good illustration of Calvin's concept of atonement versus the Christian concept of atonement...

 

[utilyan]

This is all your figment of imagination about what God has revealed in scripture and therefore it is your accusation against God, not me.

Since God controls everything then he is obviously making me tell you that you are wrong.

Ergo take up your argument with God.

 

[utilyan]

The idea of God unleashing His wrath on a naughty Jesus (a.k.a. penal substitution) is a Calvinist belief, not a Christian one. The Christian understanding of the passion is that it is the greatest act of love, not wrath. Needless to say Calvin's doctrine of penal substitution, with God pouring out wrath and rage on his naughty Son, stands in stark contrast to the Christian understanding of the act of Christ's offering of Himself to the Father out of love...

John 10:18 ---> "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Ephesians 5:2 ---> "...and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma."

Hebrews 9:14 ---> "...how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God."


Calvin's Penal substitution destroys the Trinity (dividing God against Himself) and makes God an unjust monster, unleashing wrath on the most innocent of all. Here is a good illustration of Calvin's concept of atonement versus the Christian concept of atonement...

Same pagan and gnostic idea re-skinned.

Volcano God angry demand human sacrifice.

If volcano God like you then you saved, if he hate you then your toast.

The entire calvinist gist is right there^.

 

[Walpole]

Same pagan and gnostic idea re-skinned.

Volcano God angry demand human sacrifice.

If volcano God like you then you saved, if he hate you then your toast.

The entire calvinist gist is right there^.

Bingo! Calvinism is simply a new spin on the old primitive and pagan concept of throwing virgins into the volcano to appease the gods.

Keep up the good work you are doing here and God bless.

Here's some Lenten reading for you during these difficult times...

A Clerk of Oxford: The Long Lent and the History of Quarantine

 

[Yeshua1]

You've presented not the Logos, but the God of Calvinism, who is a God of Voluntas, arbitrarily electing some while creating others for the sheer pleasure in destroying.

You don't even know if you are one of Calvin's elect, as his God can deceive people into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them in the end.

Whether you are eternal pulp wood or elect is as good as a flip of the coin in Calvinism. By contrast, the God of Christianity (Orthodoxy and Catholicism) offers ALL men salvation through Jesus Christ.

Yes, as does "our God" but we see that he also provoded definite salvation for His own, not a "maybe"