Calvinism, God's Mercy

[webdog]

You need to re-read Steaver's post. Here is what you declared to be false:

Let it be noted that all the epistles of Paul were written either to churches or to pastors of churches. The general epistles also were written to Christians. There is not an epistle that was written that was written to a non-Christian.

Your reply here agrees with what I said, there was a specific audience intended...the author didn't write it with every believer throughout time as its recipient as steaver is implying. No idea where you keep getting epistles written to non christians from.

 

[Moriah]

What I said was that John Piper lives a God centered life. His life is centered on Jesus Christ and bringing Him glory. If it takes a belief in TULIP for John to do this then glory be to God!

Why would it take a belief in TULIP for John to be able to give God glory? That just makes me think that he never understood the truth at all even before he got into Calvinism. Did he not know before he was a Calvinist that he was supposed to obey Jesus?

I personally do not need a belief in TULIP to live a God centered life and bring glory to Jesus Christ. I live a God centered life for no other reason than my admoration of the death, burial and ressurrection of Jesus Christ and because Jesus Christ saved a wretch like me and I am forever grateful!

Do you believe in the doctrines of TULIP?

John Piper may or may not misunderstand TULIP,

Why would you say he might not understand TULIP? Do you think there is a possibility he does not understand it?

however, I mark the man as one who lives out his faith in Jesus Christ to the max.

He could live out his life better with the truth. Calvinism goes against the Word of God. That has to interfere with his relationship with God.

Something that is more and more rare to find nowadays. I don't despise my Calvinist brothers in Christ. If they need TULIP to motivate them to living God centered, then as I said, to God be the glory!

I want God’s Truth. I do not want any false doctrines. The Truth keeps us close to God. Calvinism is false.

On the other hand we have SBM, who gives Calvinism a dark side, even denying the brotherhood in Christ, simply because of a nonessential doctrine such as TULIP. I feel bad for him, we need to pray for him.

I do not believe that Calvinism is a nonessential doctrine. Calvinism goes against God in many ways, the deep things of God. It is sad that SBM says to others that they do not have salvation. There are things other people here say that are very offensive too even though they do not come out and say what SBM says about others not having salvation. I have been debating for years now, and I am learning to accept that people are going to say the worst things to me, even though I just want to help them to understand God's beautiful Truth.

 

[webdog]

Sorry DHK, but I am not convinced.

I find no evidence that any of those verses referencing Gentiles as being the elect of God.

Its because they don't. We are grafted in along with the elect, but still retain a distinction as Romans 9 - 11 teaches.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Its because they don't. We are grafted in along with the elect, but still retain a distinction as Romans 9 - 11 teaches.

Exactly! We are grafted in with the elect, but we are not the elect.

 

[DHK]

Sorry DHK, but I am not convinced.

I find no evidence that any of those verses referencing Gentiles as being the elect of God.

Give evidence that they don't.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

And be sure to explain them in the light of the above verse.

 

[DHK]

Exactly! We are grafted in with the elect, but we are not the elect.

Ephesians 1:11-12 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

The purpose of our election is to be to the praise of his glory.
The ones who have been elected are "those who first trusted Christ."

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Give evidence that they don't.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

And be sure to explain them in the light of the above verse.

Already gave evidence that 1 Corinthians 10:32 is not saying what you seem to think it is saying.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Paul identified Peter as a Jew.

and to the Church of God refers to both Jew and Gentile who are members of the Church.

And that verse doesn't dispute the fact that Gentiles are not elect.

 

[Moriah]

God elects those who He saves.

That is more proof that Calvinism is false. If all were predestined, then why does God not save them when they hear about Jesus for the first time?

Of course, Gentiles are God’s elect too. Here are scriptures that tell us to make our calling and election sure.

2 Peter 1:3[ Confirming One’s Calling and Election ] His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble,

Here is a scripture that we can know that all believers are the elect.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, 3 and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Acts 19 reveals Paul reasoning with the Jews for three months in the Synagogues, so there is no reason to believe he is not speaking to Jewish saints in Ephesians.

 

[DHK]

Already gave evidence that 1 Corinthians 10:32 is not saying what you seem to think it is saying.

I missed your explanation. It identifies three identifiable groups of people in the NT.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Paul identified Peter as a Jew.

I gave you the larger context. Did you read it?
He also said: "We are Jews by nature.
That is what he was referring to--his heritage not his religion. Judas Iscariot was a Jew also. According to what you are telling me Judas Iscariot was one of God's elect even though he was called "the son of perdition." This is ridiculous.

and to the Church of God refers to both Jew and Gentile who are members of the Church.

Yes, only because they are both saved.
The Jew gives up his Judaism, and the Gentile gives up his paganism. They are both now Christians.

And that verse doesn't dispute the fact that Gentiles are not elect.

Yes it does. One is either an unsaved Jew, an unsaved Gentile, or a Christian (part of the church of God). Those are the only choices you have.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

One need only look at the story of the rich man and Lazarus to disprove the notion that election is in reference to being elected to Salvation.

The Word of God reveals that the Jews are God's elect people. Yet we see the rich man in hell. The rich man was a Jew who identified Abraham as being in his bloodline by calling him "Father". Abraham also called the rich man "Son".

Yet this man was in hell with no hope of Salvation.

Elect is not speaking of Salvation.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I missed your explanation. It identifies three identifiable groups of people in the NT.

I gave you the larger context. Did you read it?
He also said: "We are Jews by nature.
That is what he was referring to--his heritage not his religion. Judas Iscariot was a Jew also. According to what you are telling me Judas Iscariot was one of God's elect even though he was called "the son of perdition." This is ridiculous.

Yes, only because they are both saved.
The Jew gives up his Judaism, and the Gentile gives up his paganism. They are both now Christians.

Yes it does. One is either an unsaved Jew, an unsaved Gentile, or a Christian (part of the church of God). Those are the only choices you have.

Election is not speaking of one's religion. It is speaking of race. The race that was known as Jews were God's elect people on earth.

No other people were identified as being elect other than the Jews.

 

[DHK]

Election is not speaking of one's religion. It is speaking of race. The race that was known as Jews were God's elect people on earth.

No other people were identified as being elect other than the Jews.

1Pet.2:9 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: (ASV)

The epistles are written to Christians, including the first epistle to Peter.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

First Peter was writeen to the diaspora, the Jews that were scattered abroad.

 

[DHK]

First Peter was writeen to the diaspora, the Jews that were scattered abroad.

Prove that Peter wrote to anyone unsaved.

 

[DHK]

First Peter was writeen to the diaspora, the Jews that were scattered abroad.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

As the Jews rejected Christ and crucified him, the Jews would reject Peter's address above. No Jew would accept what is written above.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Prove that Peter wrote to anyone unsaved.

Prove that the strangers scattered abroad were native inhabitants of those countries that Peter addressed.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

As the Jews rejected Christ and crucified him, the Jews would reject Peter's address above. No Jew would accept what is written above.

All the Jews of the first century Church accepted it.

 

[DHK]

Prove that the strangers scattered abroad were native inhabitants of those countries that Peter addressed.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: ASV

I don't have to prove anything but believe what the Scriptures say. We, as believers in Christ, are an elect race, a holy nation, a people of God's own possession, that we may show forth the excellencies of him who called us out of darkness into his marvellous light.
--The Jew will never do that. Not in the generation of Christ, not now, not until Jesus comes again.

 

[billwald]

God can regenerate ANYONE "in" Christ Jesus. I trust God to do what is right. It would be right to send people to hell because they were ignorant and admit evil people to Heaven because they knew the password.