Calvinism, God's Mercy

[steaver]

Those that you call "the lost sheep of Israel" called out "Crucify Him," "Crucify Him," and then the pagan soldiers drove nails through his hands and feet and crucified him. They both are in the same boat and just as guilty.

"He came to his own and his own received him not."
Israel is a wicked and a lost nation in need of Christ.

"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go." (Acts 3:13)

 

[steaver]

You are either just not getting it or are ignoring it. The epistles are NOT written to all christians...they were written to a specific audience for a specific purpose. All christians benefit from these letters, though!

You are splitting hairs just for the sake of arguing. Everyone knows they were written to specific believers at a specific time. And I thought everyone knew they were written for us just as though we were sitting in those churches at that time. I guess I learn something new just about everyday.

 

[Moriah]

Those that you call "the lost sheep of Israel" called out "Crucify Him," "Crucify Him," and then the pagan soldiers drove nails through his hands and feet and crucified him. They both are in the same boat and just as guilty.

"He came to his own and his own received him not."
Israel is a wicked and a lost nation in need of Christ.

You want us to believe that after Jesus rose from the dead and told Peter, “Take care of my sheep” that Jesus did not yet have any sheep. Lol

 

[Moriah]

Israel is a wicked and a lost nation in need of Christ.

Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel first. There was a remnant.

 

[steaver]

A true believer is not going to start giving God glory only after learning of Calvinism. I do not think that John Piper had known enough of the truth before learning the TULIP beliefs.

.

I believe Piper when he says he was saved years before embracing Calvinism, but for some reason he could not shake his self-centeredness until embracing Calvinism.

I believe it harms the person’s walk with God when they believe in something about God that is not true, even teaching others the false ways. Calvinism has a very distinct spirit, and it just should not be in one’s relationship with God. My God died for the sins of the world. God wants all to repent and have salvation. However, Calvinists teach God only saved some, and even made the rest for going to Hell for His own pleasure. That is a major difference in beliefs, especially when one shows them the scriptures showing that Jesus died for all, yet they still deny the truth

I understand what you are saying. But I have Calvinistic friends who are wonderful Christians, maybe they just don't push it like some. I also have good friends who think one can lose their salvation after being born of God. Even though they error in this they are stillvery God-centered and great Christians.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Those Gentiles (Greeks) that believed on Christ did not cease to be Gentiles... as is evident in the above verse.

The Jews that believed did not cease to be Jews.
I did not cease being an American when I trusted Christ.

Nor did I cease to be a male.

 

[Moriah]

I believe Piper when he says he was saved years before embracing Calvinism, but for some reason he could not shake his self-centeredness until embracing Calvinism.



I understand what you are saying. But I have Calvinistic friends who are wonderful Christians, maybe they just don't push it like some. I also have good friends who think one can lose their salvation after being born of God. Even though they error in this they are stillvery God-centered and great Christians.

I see what you are saying, but again, if Piper were a true believer before learning of Calvinism, he would have been giving God the glory all along.

As for Calvinist friends who are great Christians…I just do not believe that they all really can be that great while not having the truth. Many Calvinists do not even understand about being baptized until understanding that it is a conscious move to obey God’s commands. Those raised in reformed religions have infant baptisms and believe it is their covenant with God. Sin is a real issue in a relationship with Jesus. Infant baptism and OSAS, those topics twist things up where sin is concerned. Just the fact that Calvinists tell people they are totally depraved and cannot do anything God wants them to do, not even the ability to believe, well that goes against God in such a devastating way. God says believe and obey. Calvinists say we cannot believe and obey. I would be horrified to teach that.

 

[webdog]

You are splitting hairs just for the sake of arguing. Everyone knows they were written to specific believers at a specific time. And I thought everyone knew they were written for us just as though we were sitting in those churches at that time. I guess I learn something new just about everyday.

I'm not splitting hairs. Do you blend fabrics? Have you cut your hair at the temple? Surely these were given to all christians, right?

 

[DHK]

Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel first. There was a remnant.

It is a moot point. We don't need to talk about the past. We live in the present. What you are saying is akin to saying "God came to Adam and Eve first." And so he did. Adam and Eve existed long before Israel did. So what!
What is important now is that ALL who will be saved, whether Jew or Gentile must go through Christ. A Jew, Muslim, Hindu are all unsaved and all must go through Christ to obtain salvation. A Jew is just as lost as a Muslim and a Hindu. They all need Christ.

 

[steaver]

I think someone came up with this seperation of the elect doctrine just to fight the Calvinist. What value could it have for Christian living? Does anyone know who started this doctrine? This would probably shed light on the why?

 

[steaver]

I'm not splitting hairs. Do you blend fabrics? Have you cut your hair at the temple? Surely these were given to all christians, right?

The scriptures were written to all Christians. Study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the word of Truth.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: Everyone knows they were written to specific believers at a specific time. And I thought everyone knew they were written for us just as though we were sitting in those churches at that time. I guess I learn something new just about everyday.

HP: What about the unsaved? Was there nothing for them in the Scriptures in question? I wonder if we should make a notion in the flyleaf of the multitude of Gideon Bibles distributed, so that if a lost person picks up a Gideon Bible, they will know it was not written to them?

 

[Moriah]

I think someone came up with this seperation of the elect doctrine just to fight the Calvinist. What value could it have for Christian living? Does anyone know who started this doctrine? This would probably shed light on the why?

Why do you think that saying Christians are not the elect fights Calvinism? I am not a Calvinist, and I know God elects Gentiles.

 

[webdog]

I think someone came up with this seperation of the elect doctrine just to fight the Calvinist. What value could it have for Christian living? Does anyone know who started this doctrine? This would probably shed light on the why?

Its called applying proper hermeneutic. I believe pride seeps in where we want to be the elect, the same pride found in replacement theology. How dare those Jews still hold a special place in Gods plans!

 

[webdog]

The scriptures were written to all Christians. Study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the word of Truth.

Nice deflection, care to answer?

 

[Moriah]

It is a moot point. We don't need to talk about the past. We live in the present. What you are saying is akin to saying "God came to Adam and Eve first." And so he did. Adam and Eve existed long before Israel did. So what!
What is important now is that ALL who will be saved, whether Jew or Gentile must go through Christ. A Jew, Muslim, Hindu are all unsaved and all must go through Christ to obtain salvation. A Jew is just as lost as a Muslim and a Hindu. They all need Christ.

Nothing about the truth is moot. In addition, false doctrines come from such thinking.

 

[steaver]

HP: What about the unsaved? Was there nothing for them in the Scriptures in question? I wonder if we should make a notion in the flyleaf of the multitude of Gideon Bibles distributed, so that if a lost person picks up a Gideon Bible, they will know it was not written to them?

I don't think anyone believes God did not expect the scriptures to save the lost. A lost person can find salvation through Christ by reading the scriptures. I don't think we meant to leave this aspect of the power of the Word out. It just wasn't the focus at the moment.

 

[Moriah]

Its called applying proper hermeneutic. I believe pride seeps in where we want to be the elect, the same pride found in replacement theology. How dare those Jews still hold a special place in Gods plans!

What do you call replacement theology? Do you believe that the Jews have to accept Jesus before they are saved?

 

[DHK]

Nothing about the truth is moot. In addition, false doctrines come from such thinking.

False doctrines come from not rightly dividing the word of truth.
There are three groups of people today:
1. Lost Jews.
2. Lost Gentiles.
3. The Church of God, or Christians.

That is what Paul says in 1Cor.10.
Why argue with Scripture?

 

[steaver]

Nice deflection, care to answer?

Not a deflection, it is the answer. The epistles are written to all Christians, now study and divide which parts apply to today and which parts don't.