Calvinism, God's Mercy

[Moriah]

Is there a book written to unbelievers Webdog?

Of course, the Bible is written for unbelievers too. That is such a strange thing to claim that God does not speak to unbelievers in the Bible.

 

[DHK]

All the Jews of the first century Church accepted it.

Is that why they tried to stone Paul, and that more than once.
Have you read the Book of Acts lately?

 

[billwald]

>Is that why they tried to stone Paul, and that more than once.

Probably the same reason that during the Reformation Catholics, Lutherans, and Reformed believers agreed that it was OK to Kill Baptists.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Is that why they tried to stone Paul, and that more than once.
Have you read the Book of Acts lately?

You apparently didn't read my post, DHK. Either that, or you saw only what you wanted to see.

I did not say, All the Jews of the first century accpeted it.

I said, All the Jews of the first century Church accepted it.

There is a difference.

It wasn't the Church that stoned Paul.

 

[billwald]

>All the Jews of the first century Church accepted it.

Written like a "wannabe" Jew. I have some Christian relatives who are wannabe Jews.

 

[DHK]

You apparently didn't read my post, DHK. Either that, or you saw only what you wanted to see.

I did not say, All the Jews of the first century accpeted it.

I said, All the Jews of the first century Church accepted it.

There is a difference.

It wasn't the Church that stoned Paul.

There is no such thing as "a Jew of the first century church."
They were Christians, not Jews.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. That distinction can no longer be made.

 

[steaver]

...the author didn't write it with every believer throughout time as its recipient as steaver is implying. No idea where you keep getting epistles written to non christians from.

You need to reread my post like DHK said. I never said the author wrote them "with every believer throughout time".

Steaver...The epistles are written to all Christians.

If they are not, then why do you bother to read and obey them? Unless you are Jewish.

 

[webdog]

You need to reread my post like DHK said. I never said the author wrote them "with every believer throughout time".



If they are not, then why do you bother to read and obey them? Unless you are Jewish.

You substitute believers for christians, and that somehow changes the meaning? I also never said all believers / christians cannot benefit from all of Scripture, but the fact remains the authors addressed the epistles to a specific audience in a specific time for a specific purpose, not to every christian throughout time.

 

[webdog]

There is no such thing as "a Jew of the first century church."
They were Christians, not Jews.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. That distinction can no longer be made.

...then you might as well tear out Romans 11 from your Bible.

 

[Moriah]

There is no such thing as "a Jew of the first century church."
They were Christians, not Jews.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. That distinction can no longer be made.

The Jews were Christians first.

God elects Gentiles too.

The Bible is for unbelievers and believers.

 

[webdog]

Prove that Peter wrote to anyone unsaved.

Did Luke? The growing consensus leans toward Theophilus being a high priest and making it highly doubtful he was a believer.

 

[DHK]

...then you might as well tear out Romans 11 from your Bible.

Why would I do that?
Every single verse of the Book of Romans, including all of Romans 11 was written to:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

the saints at Rome, not to the Jews. They were believers in Christ, not Jews.

 

[steaver]

Why would it take a belief in TULIP for John to be able to give God glory? That just makes me think that he never understood the truth at all even before he got into Calvinism. Did he not know before he was a Calvinist that he was supposed to obey Jesus?

.

It obviously did, I don't know why, but it seems that a belief in TULIP causes some CHristians to become God-centered when otherwise they are self-centered. It's sad but true for John according to John's own testimony.

Do you believe in the doctrines of TULIP?

No, not as I understand them to be. I hear different versions from different believers, but I would say no.

Why would you say he might not understand TULIP? Do you think there is a possibility he does not understand it?

I probably didn't word that right, I mean to say whether or not he really understands the scriptures he embraces as TULIP.

He could live out his life better with the truth. Calvinism goes against the Word of God. That has to interfere with his relationship with God.

I want God’s Truth. I do not want any false doctrines. The Truth keeps us close to God. Calvinism is false.

I don't know if Calvinism harms the believers walk with God, I would think not, but it could cause one to feel a lack of urgency to preach to the lost figuring God will reach all of HIs elect whether I do anything to reach them or not.

 

[DHK]

The Jews were Christians first.

God elects Gentiles too.

The Bible is for unbelievers and believers.

And the Corinthians were Pagans first (1Cor.12:2,3). So what is your point?
Does that mean that pagans are a part of the church of God?
Christians make up the church of God, and only Christians no matter what their background was.

 

[Moriah]

And the Corinthians were Pagans first (1Cor.12:2,3). So what is your point?
Does that mean that pagans are a part of the church of God?
Christians make up the church of God, and only Christians no matter what their background was.

The lost sheep of Israel were Jews, they believed in God before Jesus' ministry on earth, and they believed in Jesus when he came to earth.

Do not compare them to Pagans.

 

[steaver]

You substitute believers for christians, and that somehow changes the meaning? I also never said all believers / christians cannot benefit from all of Scripture, but the fact remains the authors addressed the epistles to a specific audience in a specific time for a specific purpose, not to every christian throughout time.

Believers and CHristians are one in the same, what are you talking about?

What I said and what you said I said are two different things...has nothing to do with believers verses Christians.

Originally Posted by webdog
...the author didn't write it with every believer throughout time as its recipient as steaver is implying. No idea where you keep getting epistles written to non christians from.

Steaver...The epistles are written to all Christians

 

[DHK]

The lost sheep of Israel were Jews, they believed in God before Jesus' ministry on earth, and they believed in Jesus when he came to earth.

Do not compare them to Pagans.

Those that you call "the lost sheep of Israel" called out "Crucify Him," "Crucify Him," and then the pagan soldiers drove nails through his hands and feet and crucified him. They both are in the same boat and just as guilty.

"He came to his own and his own received him not."
Israel is a wicked and a lost nation in need of Christ.

 

[webdog]

Believers and CHristians are one in the same, what are you talking about?

What I said and what you said I said are two different things...has nothing to do with believers verses Christians.

You are either just not getting it or are ignoring it. The epistles are NOT written to all christians...they were written to a specific audience for a specific purpose. All christians benefit from these letters, though!

 

[webdog]

Why would I do that?
Every single verse of the Book of Romans, including all of Romans 11 was written to:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

the saints at Rome, not to the Jews. They were believers in Christ, not Jews.

I can't believe you never see Paul shifting his thoughts to different aspects of his audience in his letters! Unbelievable.

 

[Moriah]

It obviously did, I don't know why, but it seems that a belief in TULIP causes some CHristians to become God-centered when otherwise they are self-centered. It's sad but true for John according to John's own testimony.

A true believer is not going to start giving God glory only after learning of Calvinism. I do not think that John Piper had known enough of the truth before learning the TULIP beliefs.

I don't know if Calvinism harms the believers walk with God, I would think not, but it could cause one to feel a lack of urgency to preach to the lost figuring God will reach all of HIs elect whether I do anything to reach them or not.

I believe it harms the person’s walk with God when they believe in something about God that is not true, even teaching others the false ways. Calvinism has a very distinct spirit, and it just should not be in one’s relationship with God. My God died for the sins of the world. God wants all to repent and have salvation. However, Calvinists teach God only saved some, and even made the rest for going to Hell for His own pleasure. That is a major difference in beliefs, especially when one shows them the scriptures showing that Jesus died for all, yet they still deny the truth.