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Calvinism, God's Mercy
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
The Jews are still the elect of God. I don't know where you get that they are not.Replacement Theology is the belief that the "Church" replaces Israel. That is a heresy. The Jews still exist. You can see them fighting the Palestinians who are backed by Iran. But they are not saved, and no longer the elect of God.
Do Jews have to trust Jesus in order to be saved? Yes!
That is the only way to be saved--by trusting Christ.
One cannot be born a Christian.
A Jew is not born saved, with eternal life. There are Jews that die and go to hell every day because they have rejected Christ.
The Jews are still the elect of God. I don't know where you get that they are not.
All true Christians are the elect, Jews and Gentiles. If you do not think that God chooses and elects those He saves, then how else do you think one becomes a Christian?
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
All true Christians are the elect, Jews and Gentiles. If you do not think that God chooses and elects those He saves, then how else do you think one becomes a Christian?
One does not become a Christian through election. Election is not to Salvation.
One becomes a Christian by placing one's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection.
One does not become a Christian through election. Election is not to Salvation.
One becomes a Christian by placing one's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection.
God elects and chooses, that is God saving someone. When someone says they believe in God, do you think that automatically makes God give them His Holy Spirit? No, it does not. God chooses whom He saves and gives the Holy Spirit.
The Jews were the elect of God, and then the rejected their Messiah, and God rejected them.The Jews are still the elect of God. I don't know where you get that they are not.
A remnant will be saved (Rom.11:26) when Christ comes. They, sometime in the future will again become the elect of God.
But now they are a pagan nation in need of Christ just like any other person: Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, animist, atheist, etc. They are no better than anyone else. Without trusting Christ they will go to hell.
Now, the elect of God are those that trust Christ as their Savior.
We are chosen:
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Brother, what would be the point in going out of my way to seperate Jew and Gentile when Paul declares they are one? So I can tell Calvinist they cannot be elect? What would believing in this do for my walk with CHrist?
:thumbs::thumbs:When someone wants to resist the truth...they will listen to anyone who comes up with a pathetic theory like Hamp!
All believers for all time are elect in the Elect servant...this is a done deal, it is not up for debate.
5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
11And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
12Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.
13Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
14But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
The Jews are still the elect of God. There is no Scripture that states they are not the elect of God. Peter wrote to the elect that were scattered abroad... Jews.The Jews were the elect of God, and then the rejected their Messiah, and God rejected them.
A remnant will be saved (Rom.11:26) when Christ comes. They, sometime in the future will again become the elect of God.
But now they are a pagan nation in need of Christ just like any other person: Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, animist, atheist, etc. They are no better than anyone else. Without trusting Christ they will go to hell.
Now, the elect of God are those that trust Christ as their Savior.
We are chosen:
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Hamp has Scripture to back everything he teaches on election. So it is more than theory... it is truth.
The Jews are still the elect of God. There is no Scripture that states they are not the elect of God. Peter wrote to the elect that were scattered abroad... Jews.
God cut off the Jews who did not believe in Jesus, they are not the elect. Peter wrote to the elect that were scattered abroad; Peter wrote Christian Jews, and Christian Gentiles.
convicted1
Guest
If one does a diligent study of the words, "elect" "election" "chose" and "chosen" throughout the Word of God, one will find an interesting thing.
Nowhere are the Gentiles said to be "elect". Context always reveals the elect to be either the Jewish nation, angels, or Jesus Christ.
DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!!!! We have us a winner right here!! Get this Brother a cee-gar!!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
No cigar necessary. Just conveying the truth written in God's Word.
One does not become a Christian through election. Election is not to Salvation.
One becomes a Christian by placing one's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection.
Election is unto salvation...in fact...there will be no non elect in heaven...
as far as your/hamp claim.....
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
savedbymercy
New Member
Do you hail from the tribe of Gad, Asher, Simeon, or what?
Just what tribe are you from? Pray tell?
This is not about me ! But Christ. Since the Church is one with Christ, they are of whatever Tribe Christ is from !
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Steadfast Fred, I for one believe you have a valid point as I understand you, especially in light as to how most Calvinists or those leaning hard towards Calvinism view election.:thumbsup:
God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS when it comes to salvation. The notion that the list of the saved is predetermined by God before one has ever made their first choice, and the list of the elect having nothing to do with any choice an individual has made or will ever make, is not only unscriptural, but paints a most horrible blight on the Character of God.
God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS when it comes to salvation. The notion that the list of the saved is predetermined by God before one has ever made their first choice, and the list of the elect having nothing to do with any choice an individual has made or will ever make, is not only unscriptural, but paints a most horrible blight on the Character of God.
Last edited by a moderator:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Thanks Hp.Steadfast Fred, I for one believe you have a valid point as I understand you, especially in light as to how most Calvinists or those leaning hard towards Calvinism view election.:thumbsup:
God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS when it comes to salvation. The notion that the list of the saved is predetermined by God before one has ever made their first choice, and the list of the elect having nothing to do with any choice an individual has made or will ever make, is not only unscriptural, but paints a most horrible blight on the Character of God.
At one time, I did believe that since I had trusted Christ that I too was one of His elect until I began studying election in the Word of God.
Hamp's thesis on election solidifies my beliefs concerning who is and who is not the elect of God.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Steadfast Fred: At one time, I did believe that since I had trusted Christ that I too was one of His elect until I began studying election in the Word of God.
HP: As you rightfully indicate, one can believe they are one of the elect all day long and simply be deceived. The Word of God tells us precisely how we are to be saved, and how to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and believing in ones election is not one of them.
Salvation comes subsequent to repentance and faith in the shed blood of Christ, and is testified to by a clear conscience before God and before man. Here is a passage that a wayfaring man, though a fool can understand.
1Jn 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Steadfast Fred, I for one believe you have a valid point as I understand you, especially in light as to how most Calvinists or those leaning hard towards Calvinism view election.:thumbsup:
God is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS when it comes to salvation. The notion that the list of the saved is predetermined by God before one has ever made their first choice, and the list of the elect having nothing to do with any choice an individual has made or will ever make, is not only unscriptural, but paints a most horrible blight on the Character of God.
I don't see what this has to do with Calvinism. Nothing, really.
First, the Bible does teach election.
Secondly, you rightly say, "God is no respecter of persons."
Third, if others, as they are contending, apply election only to Israel, then God is a respecter of persons. Thus election is not simply for the Jews.
Fourth, In many places throughout the NT, God has called believers, both of Gentile and Jewish background: his chosen, his elect, predestined, etc.
Fifth, It is obvious that God chose (read elect) a nation unto himself in the OT (the Jews), and is doing so in the NT (the church of God), which has nothing to do with the Jews), for the Jews have been set on a shelf for a time, and have been blinded to the truth of the gospel. God's elect are those who have put their trust in Christ, no matter what background they have come from. This has nothing to do with Calvinism.
Do you trust the word of God, or do you trust Hamp.Thanks Hp.
At one time, I did believe that since I had trusted Christ that I too was one of His elect until I began studying election in the Word of God.
Hamp's thesis on election solidifies my beliefs concerning who is and who is not the elect of God.
Personally I put my trust in God's Word. That is my authority, not the word of a sinful man.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Do you trust the word of God, or do you trust Hamp.
Personally I put my trust in God's Word. That is my authority, not the word of a sinful man.
I trust the Word of God. And as yet, I have not found one Scripture that agrees with the claim that Gentiles are elect.