I think that this discussion is more about Free Will as apposed to Gods decrees & doctrines. I dont personally believe any of my brothers in Christ believe God has authorship in Sin....its just how we look at it.
I agree but would point out that free will addresses the, for lack of a better word, the culpability of God, so,
it is also about the "decrees & doctrines".
I would like to believe the illusion of Free Will but I have many questions about it. What is free will? Here is the definition I have found: “God does not assert any power or influence over the will of human beings.”
I am contemplating how you meant to use the word 'power'. I take it you mean in the manner of 'influence' since 'asserting power' seems to very heavy with the idea of causation which would completely render your question of man's free will impossible.
Also, the manner in which you have framed your question seems to make it sound as though we believe that God has never, nor will ever, be the cause of a human's will, or influence that will. I don't understand why you would accept this characature. It is inacurate. I have not read anyone make that claim.
The good thing is that it should be easy for you to recognize the paper tiger you have found. The idea of us conversing on this board indicates that we believe that we can inform and thereby influence another person's will. In fact, if we as Christians have information that might influence unbelievers then we are morally obligated to present such and encouraged to influence them to believe. It is possible that I change my views and decide to do that which I otherwise would not have done. How much more would God be able to inform and inflence man? Yet you propose that we believe God does not nor has ever influenced any man as such?
May I propose a new premise instead of the one you found? Free will is the ability to choose to respond to Him in a self denying way. It is God who informs us (the good news), who draws us (Christ being lifted up), who convicts us of our sin, in faith we deny our selves and turn to Christ.
So my Free Will Brethren your telling me its all about 'doing whatever you like because God isn't going to do anything about it'?
Oh my Gosh, just think of the implications if this is true. Your eternal destiny rests in your hands. You make the decision on whether you will go to heaven or hell. Believe and be saved…do not believe and be damned. You get it? If you do not accept Christ as your personal savior, you will go to hell. You have free will and God will not intervene in any decision you make.
Your reference here to 'doing whatever you like' doesn't reflect what we believe either. I don't think anyone here on the BB believes that man can cause a certain reality to exist entirely of our own will. If so, then you would be able to rightly accuse them of believing that they could will their keyboard into a block of gold. Of course, we don't have that ability and I think you would agree that that is not what we are claiming (yet your post allows for that). Nor do we believe that man can will himself to a distant extraterrestrial location of blissful existence in the same manner.
Yes, He wants you to be saved but he is leaving it all up to you. Why? Because you have free will, my friend! YOU make the call!!
Wow, thats scary but you fellows glory in it. I repeat "SCARY"!
It seems that you are :BangHead: bumping up against a logical problem being something like this: How can God create a being with any bit of real free will and still be completely sovereign. How can God hold a created being accountable for something he was not created as able to do.
Can it be the case that God created beings which can choose to deny themselves (at least in one solitary decision) and still maintain His sovereignty? Can it be the case that God can create beings for which God determines and causes everything and still maintain His sovereignty? I think both can be answered in the affirmative. Can God then hold accountable these beings with the consequences being everlasting torment and still maintain His character? In the former scenario, yes. In the latter scenario, I'm not so confident.
Either belief has its problems. I am aware of my belief's problems. I think you would agree that because a belief has logical problems it should not follow that they are therefor disqualified as legitimate candidates for models of reality.
EWF, I would encourage you to
read an essay from Dr. Barry Creamer. He is the Professor of Humanities at Criswell College. I have found his podcasts and writings extremely helpful for me to understand the idea of free will. You may also find helpful my story of having to confront the issue of my Pastor being a calvinist.
He used my email to start a week long series of shows on KCBI on the subject of Determinism and Freewill. You will also get to learn more about me, which really doesn't mean much other than it seems to help our understanding when we start to emotionally connect to someone's story. Shalom.
