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Calvinists have a "higher" view of mankind than Non-Calvinists

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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I know that I am often painted into a Calvinist corner, but I really disavow the term, for it has come to have perjorative connotations along the line of "gay" (which used to mean happy) and other hijacked terms.

As for honesty, as a serious student of the Bible and theology based on that Bible, honesty is a first level requirement. That is often overlooked or forgotten in these debates. I really have no ax to grind here, just speaking forth what I sincerly believe the Word to say. I have to stand before God one of these days and give account for my words and thoughts. I tremble at that thought, in that I might have something wrong or might lead someone astray. That is why, if anything, I tend to give a higher creedence to God's sovereignty than to man's free will. Both may be true, but if I have to come down on one side or the other, I will choose God every time. I will bow as a slave to my Lord before I usurp His authority by suggesting that somehow in some way I am worthy of His attention. I am not. It is pure grace!

What a week....1st I have a chum I thought I understood announce his conversion to Roman Catholicism & now you disavow yourself of Calvinism. Well Calvinism is at the very core really Systematic Theology/ Doctrines of Grace, so throw out the word "C" if you wish ..... trade up to Biblisist. OK, bottom line, do you see the DoG theology in scripture (yes or no)?
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once again, IF we were so devastated by the effects of the fall that we cannot come to Jesus by own violation, then God could not chose that basis as means to His election, for IF He was to wait upon our decision to accept Jesus in order to get saved, NONE would get saved!

AMEN :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
What a week....1st I have a chum I thought I understood announce his conversion to Roman Catholicism & now you disavow yourself of Calvinism. Well Calvinism is at the very core really Systematic Theology/ Doctrines of Grace, so throw out the word "C" if you wish ..... trade up to Biblisist. OK, bottom line, do you see the DoG theology in scripture (yes or no)?

EWF, I seriously don't think that was his point. (wow I am defending someone on the "other side". :) )

I think he was merely pointing out that "labels" in many of the more "intellectually and theologically narrow" eyes come with "baggage" that colors their thoughts. But I could be wrong, it would be only the second or third time. :)
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
EWF, I seriously don't think that was his point. (wow I am defending someone on the "other side". :) )

I think he was merely pointing out that "labels" in many of the more "intellectually and theologically narrow" eyes come with "baggage" that colors their thoughts. But I could be wrong, it would be only the second or third time. :)

You never know Dave, you never know. Far better to ask a direct question & get a direct answer, right. "Let your yes be yes or your no be no......anything less...... right.
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
of course, you wil get back that either it makes God "unfair, picking sides", or else that we misunderstood, was JUST refering to those 2 people. period!

And they will say He chose based upon what he foresaw them doing in the Future!

God did everything to bring Jesus the elected one and all in Him not apart from Him will be saved so His election will stand. It isn't til Jesus was glorified that salvation came to the world. I believe many come to the conclusion that God had elected people to bring about His plan and stop there and everyone is saved that way, but it is to bring salvation to the world through Jesus Christ and whosoever, anybody, all who believe in Him will be saved.

Most people want to stop at election, but through these elected one's spreading the hope that can only be found in Jesus, God is including more those who hear the Gospel of their salvation having believed. What have they believed?

They believed the finish work of Jesus Christ saved them, not what they did.

God choose Jacob to be the line of His Son not what Jacob has done, but what Jesus will do and what has been going on from the beginning that those who believe, trust in God not themselves will be credited righteousness.

No one seeks God and no one is good so God choose messengers to seek them, and Jesus came to save sinners those who are not good, those who are not righteous and have to depend on the righteousness of Jesus Christ.


Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

John 6:
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 14:10
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Luke 9:26
Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]
 
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glfredrick

New Member
What a week....1st I have a chum I thought I understood announce his conversion to Roman Catholicism & now you disavow yourself of Calvinism. Well Calvinism is at the very core really Systematic Theology/ Doctrines of Grace, so throw out the word "C" if you wish ..... trade up to Biblisist. OK, bottom line, do you see the DoG theology in scripture (yes or no)?

Of course I do. I have not changed a single hair of my core doctrines because of any debates on this site or for any other reasons.

I CAME HERE disavowing the term Calvinism, and if you would look up some of my earliest posts on the subject you would find me saying just that.

I am sick and tired of the TERM, and also the negativity that it implies. It has become a tool of Satan to keep people apart from a right relationship with each other and with God. It is time to retire the terms Calvinism and Arminianism in favor of a more authentic biblical picture, for each carries with it modern stereotypes that can no longer be defeated because WORD USAGE IN CONTEXT has caused each of these terms to be defined in ways other than their original usage.
 

plain_n_simple

Active Member
"I am sick and tired of the TERM, and also the negativity that it implies. It has become a tool of Satan to keep people apart from a right relationship with each other and with God. It is time to retire the terms Calvinism and Arminianism in favor of a more authentic biblical picture, for each carries with it modern stereotypes that can no longer be defeated because WORD USAGE IN CONTEXT has caused each of these terms to be defined in ways other than their original usage."

Yep
 

DaChaser1

New Member
Of course I do. I have not changed a single hair of my core doctrines because of any debates on this site or for any other reasons.

I CAME HERE disavowing the term Calvinism, and if you would look up some of my earliest posts on the subject you would find me saying just that.

I am sick and tired of the TERM, and also the negativity that it implies. It has become a tool of Satan to keep people apart from a right relationship with each other and with God. It is time to retire the terms Calvinism and Arminianism in favor of a more authentic biblical picture, for each carries with it modern stereotypes that can no longer be defeated because WORD USAGE IN CONTEXT has caused each of these terms to be defined in ways other than their original usage.

How about the term "Christians?"
 

glfredrick

New Member
There is one distinction between the use of the term "Christian" and the term "Calvinist" (or "Arminian" for that matter).

One is a "Christian" because there is no other whom we follow except Christ and the term is found listed in Scripture as a descriptor of those people who indeed followed Christ, even though originally applied by outsiders as a perjorative.

One can approve of and hold the theological point of view that Calvin and many others hold or held down through the ages and the doctrine can be called anything. "Calvinism" as a term is not a requirement, nor is it found mentioned in Scripture, though the core revelations that drive the doctrines are.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There is one distinction between the use of the term "Christian" and the term "Calvinist" (or "Arminian" for that matter).

One is a "Christian" because there is no other whom we follow except Christ and the term is found listed in Scripture as a descriptor of those people who indeed followed Christ, even though originally applied by outsiders as a perjorative.

One can approve of and hold the theological point of view that Calvin and many others hold or held down through the ages and the doctrine can be called anything. "Calvinism" as a term is not a requirement, nor is it found mentioned in Scripture, though the core revelations that drive the doctrines are.

More specifically......If your a believer that Doctrines of Grace ate Biblical, then as a Christian & a Biblicist, you also add that into your Salvation Theology

Faith Resume

CHRISTIAN

1. biblical
2. Trinitarian
3. DoG Theology (Salvation Theology)

The third would be the way you interpret the bible, not a pejorative.
 

DaChaser1

New Member
There is one distinction between the use of the term "Christian" and the term "Calvinist" (or "Arminian" for that matter).

One is a "Christian" because there is no other whom we follow except Christ and the term is found listed in Scripture as a descriptor of those people who indeed followed Christ, even though originally applied by outsiders as a perjorative.

One can approve of and hold the theological point of view that Calvin and many others hold or held down through the ages and the doctrine can be called anything. "Calvinism" as a term is not a requirement, nor is it found mentioned in Scripture, though the core revelations that drive the doctrines are.

Would all true Christians basically be called either:

Those holding to Election By God based upon God and nothing else?

Those holding to Election based upon our response/faith towards God?

Those holding that the fall of Adam made us Spiritually dead?
Those holding that it harmed us, but still can freely decide/reject Christ?
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
God in His sovereignty created man with a free will. If he did not then there would be no choice between evil and good and His commandments would not be opportunities to do good.
 
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