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Calvinists, particularly one of you, prove that the following is untrue.

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pinoybaptist

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I just checked. In the private messages section, I see that I am allowed "O" messages.
I could not find where to edit this.
I am now using IE v. 11, and the situation is still the same.
No pm's link, no edit link.
if I need to edit anything, I need to use the quote feature and ......this is getting ridiculous.
I hope the good admins are reading this.

see what I mean ?
I just wanted to add that I'm headed off to church now and will see you all later.
Well, I have to go across the bay first to the North and drop my wife off to work (she was asked to work this Sunday), and then back across the bay to the East to get to church, then the same route in the afternoon to pick up the wife and back home.
Total run today: approximately 120 miles.
40 miles to worship, with lots of other Baptist churches nearby, and we PB's are ungodly ?
what the heck ?
:laugh:
 

Van

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Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.
 
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Iconoclast

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Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:
 

pinoybaptist

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Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.

Hi, Van. Thanks for this post. Catcha later.
 

pinoybaptist

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Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.
Hi, Van. Thanks for the post. I am on my way to church. Catch a later this evening.:thumbs:
 

Iconoclast

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pinoybaptist
There, is my first premise, then.
The call to repentance is not general, it is specific, directed to all men who are regenerates.


This will entail necessarily, arguments that reflect the same arguments on whether or not the "whosoever" of John 3:16 means any and all Tom, Dick and Jane of the human race, or specific Toms, Dicks, and Janes that belong to God.


Do we agree on this as well, Icon ?[/QUOTE]

We do not agree on this at all. I have began working on a response to all your concerns to flush it out and be instructive. I am compiling the data from the other thread and sorting through it.

It will take some time to list it and show why there is a problem. Scriptures will be offered that I believe speak to the issue....I do not intend to skip over any portion that was offered because the fact that you do not see it as problematic suggests where the solution is.....perception.
I believe this thread will be quite useful as long as the rules are adhered to, which someone has already violated as well as taking the Lord's name in vain.


Let me give one example....
you stated;
We see no need for the gospel to be preached


only because the stated purpose of those, like you, who insist you are on mission, is to SAVE SOULS, and by that you mean, to save them from hell.[/QUOTE]

So, the question was asked: what good will it do to preach the gospel to the unsaved ? They are damned, forever, here in time, and then in eternity to come.
I have not denied that the gospel is the means by which God brings about the conversion of the elect

repeat that eternal salvation for all for whom it was authored by Christ is OVER, DONE, WILL NOT BE REPEATED, and is now a truth for all the elect, regardless of whether they hear the gospel or not.
The call to repentance is to the elect of God and only they. and whether or not a preacher, or a tract, gets to them, God is able to draw them to Christ.

Redemption is over.
That is why I asked in another thread: of what use is preaching the gospel to the unsaved ? What good will it do them


You freely make these kind of statements as if God does not other people as means of grace.....case in point-

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

based on your statements from your posts...Paul should have said...Don't BOTHER...the cross is past....it will not make any difference:confused::confused:


and again;
1pet3;

1 Peter 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:


these passages are God given means that we are told could be used result in salvation coming to the unsaved spouse.....

I see these passages in scripture. I do not see theological fatalism as you are offering.....like this;

His work complete for all for whom it was done, with or without the gospel, the preacher, or even the Bible.

I will continue on with Much more later on...but this is a start.:wavey:
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

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I just checked. In the private messages section, I see that I am allowed "O" messages.
I could not find where to edit this.
I am now using IE v. 11, and the situation is still the same.
No pm's link, no edit link.
if I need to edit anything, I need to use the quote feature and ......this is getting ridiculous.
I hope the good admins are reading this.

Well bro, something changed your programming....also I use Foxfire ....not Chrome. Hopefully someone can sort this out.
 

pinoybaptist

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pinoybaptist
We do not agree on this at all. I have began working on a response to all your concerns to flush it out and be instructive. I am compiling the data from the other thread and sorting through it.

It will take some time to list it and show why there is a problem. Scriptures will be offered that I believe speak to the issue....I do not intend to skip over any portion that was offered because the fact that you do not see it as problematic suggests where the solution is.....perception.
I believe this thread will be quite useful as long as the rules are adhered to, which someone has already violated as well as taking the Lord's name in vain.


Let me give one example....
you stated;
You freely make these kind of statements as if God does not other people as means of grace.....case in point-

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

based on your statements from your posts...Paul should have said...Don't BOTHER...the cross is past....it will not make any difference:confused::confused:


and again;
1pet3;

1 Peter 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:


these passages are God given means that we are told could be used result in salvation coming to the unsaved spouse.....

I see these passages in scripture. I do not see theological fatalism as you are offering.....like this;



I will continue on with Much more later on...but this is a start.:wavey:

What I can see from your reply is we are going two separate wave lengths. I am on the for nished and complete redemption and salvation of all the elect INDEPENDENT of any and all acts of righteousness save that of Christ therefore repentance or the preaching of the gospel is for TIMELY purposes only. Disprove that, first of all. Catch a again. We're about to begin services.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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PM message block

Pinoy....this is the message received when I tried to PM you.

1. pinoybaptist has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove pinoybaptist from the recipient list and send the message again.
 

pinoybaptist

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Pinoy....this is the message received when I tried to PM you.

1. pinoybaptist has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove pinoybaptist from the recipient list and send the message again.
Thanks for letting me know, bro. This morning I went to my control panel exactly to see if my settings were messed up. Nope. They're fine. But nowhere is there an option to turn off or on PM. I don't think the browser has anything to do with it. Either somebody from server side is messing with me, or some add-ons I disabled somehow affected scripting. I'll find out when I get home. We're done and am on my way to pic up my secretary of defense and the treasury. lol.
Should be home, rested and ready for some more shoot outs byten your time.
 

pinoybaptist

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Pinoy....this is the message received when I tried to PM you.

1. pinoybaptist has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove pinoybaptist from the recipient list and send the message again.

Hey, I understand what happened now. I recently changed my email address.
and that necessarily put me at the starter's line, which means I needed to confirm the change of email address before I could get full features.
so the PM capability is back, as well as, the edit capability.
I forgot about the change of email address already because it was some days ago, and it took the confirm email addy with the confirm link a while to get to my provider's inbox.
okay.
that's over.
having a cup of coffee and a coupla muffins, then rest a li'l bit, and boom boom we go.:thumbsup:
 

Iconoclast

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pinoybaptist;

What I can see from your reply is we are going two separate wave lengths. I am on the for nished and complete redemption and salvation of all the elect INDEPENDENT of any and all acts of righteousness save that of Christ therefore repentance or the preaching of the gospel is for TIMELY purposes only. Disprove that, first of all.

I would like you to respond to the clear language that God usespeople to reach people ....right down to their conduct,and holy living...I will address your concern which is really no concern at all.

You have listed a series of objections that do not address the question at all.

you have said this;

the only way that you can make me turn away from my position to yours is if you can prove, by scripture, that redemption is still ongoing because
(1) the cross is NOT a past event,

(2) the tomb is not empty,

(3) the blood of Christ has not been shed,

(4) he is not in a position of intercession now.

Prove that, and you have my apologies and my promise I will cease to be a Primitive Baptist.

You write this as if it is at the heart of the issue but you are not even close.
No bible believer disputes that any of these historical details have taken place.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

This does not begin to address all the events of redemptive history.

God has an eternal plan and purpose. This is not disputed.

Jesus cross work was perfect this is not disputed.
What is disputed is your statements that the means for all these events actually have to happen.

The fall actually happened
men are born dead in adam
men are conceived as sinners ...even as others eph2
Jesus work is perfect....as is God's plan and ordained means are carried out right on time.

To repeat fatalistic statements and try and support them based on the fact of God having planned and accomplished redemption is not the issue.

You use the words gospel...but there is no gospel in your view at all.
most of your statements do this very thing...as here-
He stepped out of eternity into time, put on human form and flesh, endured a contradiction of sinners according to His Father's will for Him, and the sinner, and went up on that cross with all its pain and shame, willingly, to seal the book of life as the author of eternal salvation which He wrote and finished from the foundation of the world
.

Yes He did....again this is not the issue.No one disputes this...this does not support your view at all.

You,of all people, should know that unconditional election, the second letter of Calvinists' most revered anagram, means that not only did God elect His own based on unconditionality of race, geography, chronology and other "logy's" pertinent to God and man relationship, but also unconditional as to any action on the part of man.

All reformed persons understand this....Election is unconditional. God viewed mankind as fallen, deserving hell, and in mercy elected many such sinners to be...In The Redeemer. All reformed believers understand this. You are not saying anything here.
You are not addressing the issue of HOW GOD SEEKS AND SAVES THESE SINNERS.....That is the issue...do you get it? You claim it just happens...all the verses that I could offer you just make like they do not exist.
 

Iconoclast

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PYB

none of you have responded to God's use of means in the book of Jonah.
In fact you and others were saying God is not in control of a mosquito who bites someone.....

let me refresh your memory..you said this;
If you mean God controls the mosquito that bit you, its proliferation, its breeding, I can agree with you.
But if you mean God directed its flight to bite you, give you dengue, make you suffer, in order to make you turn to Him, I do not agree with you.

respond to these verses then;

17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.


And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah

6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief.

7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered


8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live


God is involved with everything in the created universes for His Divine purpose....He used means here...he uses means to apply the perfect atonement to the elect.
 
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Iconoclast

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PYB


We stand by our beliefs that the gospel does not RESULT IN eternal salvation, but that its preaching ...... hath brought life and immortality to light....(2
Timothy 1:10).

really...

Acts 11:14

Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


acts13;
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you

This preaching was done to those who at the time were in unbelief...you suggest it should not be done????
 
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Iconoclast

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PYB

We accuse you and Mitchell of making short and limited the expanse and scope of God's eternal salvation by making repentance and faith an addition to it thereby declaring that God had destined into perdition a big part of all of the race of mankind by these requirements and additions to grace to those who have not and will be able to hear the gospel and know about these requirements you add, because of their earthly circumstances such as their limitations as human beings, and their limitations as fallen sinners.

Clarify this......you are suggesting that God is to be blamed because men do not hear about the gospel as if he is obligated to save everyone?

Do you find fault with God's righteous judgement?
 

Iconoclast

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PYB

I repeat that eternal salvation for all for whom it was authored by Christ is OVER, DONE, WILL NOT BE REPEATED, and is now a truth for all the elect, regardless of whether they hear the gospel or not.
That salvation from errors and doctrinal or credal truth is what the gospel intends to accomplish, unless, of course, you are able to prove that you, Mitchell, and your company, can reach every man whose names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life with your spirit and quicken them and draw them to Christ.
If you can, then I will worship you, and adore you, and repent of my calling you both: PATHETIC.
[/QUOTE]

God has declared that all the Father has given Him will come to Him.

Jesus as the good shepherd seeks and saves the lost......He uses the great commission to accomplish this. It is accomplished by means...preaching the gospel....

8 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.


Do you see there is no..."why bother" attitude here.....no they went everywhere...preaching the word....

oh no...what were the thessalonians doing???

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

So they were preaching the gospel, leading to repentance, turning from idols to God.:wavey:
 

Iconoclast

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PYB

Yet, here you are, being agreed with by those whose soteriology you oppose, arguing with and insinuating against, people whose soteriology, by and large, agree with you, and which you also stated you agree with,

I have openly disputed wrong views of soteriology with these brothers. Most likely that will continue. I have no problem speaking directly to what I believe to be defective theology.
As wrong as these men might be concerning these doctrines at this point in time...I know they have to hold to the same core basics if they are biblical Christians...

many with non cal leanings...in truth really hold to most Cal truth even though they will not admit to it. They must because it is in scripture.

While I do give them grief over their stated positions....we are in agreement that as members of the kingdom of God we are to present the gospel to all men everywhere. I am much closer to them, than to you as concerns evangelism of sinners.

You and others know the verses on election and predestination.....but you hold them as cold and austere....not as God's promise to everyone who believes....worldwide.

The fact that God reveals the covenant of redemption to be a fact....does NOT tell us who the elect are....so we preach to all men everywhere.

Do not worry....no non elect will" sneak in"....

33 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.9

Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


Paul used this in Acts18....you have no place for it in your theology.
 

Iconoclast

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PYB

So, how can you throw repentance in as a requirement for eternal salvation and pollute an otherwise perfect work ?

God requires it....not me


here Paul spoke to a mixed group...some of whom became saved because of His preaching, the others were reprobated...he preached to all....they were to HEAR...and Be healed.

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
 

Iconoclast

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PYB

if you're talking about the unsaved gospelly, as in the above audience of Paul, yes, we agree. If you're talking about the unsaved who are not of the elect, we do not agree.
First because they are unregenerate, and God will not order and hold accountable anyone to move whom He himself knows cannot move. Can the leopard change his spots ? remember that Scripture ?

All men are accountable to God......

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
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