Featured Calvinists, particularly one of you, prove that the following is untrue.

Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.

 

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:

 

pinoybaptist

 

Well bro, something changed your programming....also I use Foxfire ....not Chrome. Hopefully someone can sort this out.

 

PM message block

Pinoy....this is the message received when I tried to PM you.

1. pinoybaptist has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove pinoybaptist from the recipient list and send the message again.

 

about an hour and a half I'll be back online then making progress on this thread

 

pinoybaptist;

I would like you to respond to the clear language that God usespeople to reach people ....right down to their conduct,and holy living...I will address your concern which is really no concern at all.

You have listed a series of objections that do not address the question at all.

you have said this;

You write this as if it is at the heart of the issue but you are not even close.
No bible believer disputes that any of these historical details have taken place.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

This does not begin to address all the events of redemptive history.

God has an eternal plan and purpose. This is not disputed.

Jesus cross work was perfect this is not disputed.
What is disputed is your statements that the means for all these events actually have to happen.

The fall actually happened
men are born dead in adam
men are conceived as sinners ...even as others eph2
Jesus work is perfect....as is God's plan and ordained means are carried out right on time.

To repeat fatalistic statements and try and support them based on the fact of God having planned and accomplished redemption is not the issue.

You use the words gospel...but there is no gospel in your view at all.
most of your statements do this very thing...as here-

.

Yes He did....again this is not the issue.No one disputes this...this does not support your view at all.

All reformed persons understand this....Election is unconditional. God viewed mankind as fallen, deserving hell, and in mercy elected many such sinners to be...In The Redeemer. All reformed believers understand this. You are not saying anything here.
You are not addressing the issue of HOW GOD SEEKS AND SAVES THESE SINNERS.....That is the issue...do you get it? You claim it just happens...all the verses that I could offer you just make like they do not exist.

 

PYB

none of you have responded to God's use of means in the book of Jonah.
In fact you and others were saying God is not in control of a mosquito who bites someone.....

let me refresh your memory..you said this;

respond to these verses then;

17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.


And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah

6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief.

7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered


8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live


God is involved with everything in the created universes for His Divine purpose....He used means here...he uses means to apply the perfect atonement to the elect.

 

PYB

really...

Acts 11:14

Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


acts13;
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you

This preaching was done to those who at the time were in unbelief...you suggest it should not be done????

 

PYB

Clarify this......you are suggesting that God is to be blamed because men do not hear about the gospel as if he is obligated to save everyone?

Do you find fault with God's righteous judgement?

 

PYB

That salvation from errors and doctrinal or credal truth is what the gospel intends to accomplish, unless, of course, you are able to prove that you, Mitchell, and your company, can reach every man whose names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life with your spirit and quicken them and draw them to Christ.
If you can, then I will worship you, and adore you, and repent of my calling you both: PATHETIC.[/QUOTE]

God has declared that all the Father has given Him will come to Him.

Jesus as the good shepherd seeks and saves the lost......He uses the great commission to accomplish this. It is accomplished by means...preaching the gospel....

8 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.


Do you see there is no..."why bother" attitude here.....no they went everywhere...preaching the word....

oh no...what were the thessalonians doing???

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

So they were preaching the gospel, leading to repentance, turning from idols to God.:wavey:

 

PYB

I have openly disputed wrong views of soteriology with these brothers. Most likely that will continue. I have no problem speaking directly to what I believe to be defective theology.
As wrong as these men might be concerning these doctrines at this point in time...I know they have to hold to the same core basics if they are biblical Christians...

many with non cal leanings...in truth really hold to most Cal truth even though they will not admit to it. They must because it is in scripture.

While I do give them grief over their stated positions....we are in agreement that as members of the kingdom of God we are to present the gospel to all men everywhere. I am much closer to them, than to you as concerns evangelism of sinners.

You and others know the verses on election and predestination.....but you hold them as cold and austere....not as God's promise to everyone who believes....worldwide.

The fact that God reveals the covenant of redemption to be a fact....does NOT tell us who the elect are....so we preach to all men everywhere.

Do not worry....no non elect will" sneak in"....

33 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.9

Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


Paul used this in Acts18....you have no place for it in your theology.

 

PYB

God requires it....not me


here Paul spoke to a mixed group...some of whom became saved because of His preaching, the others were reprobated...he preached to all....they were to HEAR...and Be healed.

23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

PYB

All men are accountable to God......

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.