Calvinists, particularly one of you, prove that the following is untrue.

[Iconoclast]

First, regeneration and salvation are simultaneous. One cannot split hairs over any period of time here. They take place at the same time.

Strawman alert......DHK...I have said this hundreds of times. No one is splitting hairs....:laugh:

In order to be saved one must have faith (not from God.)

Faith is the gift of God.

Does he give all the fruit of the Spirit to the unsaved? The fruit of souls as well? Why not make him a Christian without regeneration, Icon?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--To which child of the devil does he give spiritual fruit to? Please explain? Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
--To which of these does he give spiritual gifts to?

These are non elect being sent to hell. Oh wait...you do not really believe in election do you?

. First they must come to Christ on their own accord, of their own free will.

This is not the pelagian board...it is the BB.

 

[DHK]

Strawman alert......DHK...I have said this hundreds of times. No one is splitting hairs....:laugh:

When others put regeneration deliberately before salvation and sometimes days and even weeks before salvation IMO, it is close to heresy. They are simultaneous. There is no strawman here. It is truth vs. error. The example of Cornelius, is sometimes used by some to say that he was regenerated long before Peter reached there. Such theology is nonsense.

Faith is the gift of God.

It is innate. Children have faith in their parents and Jesus used it as an example that we must have faith as children.
If my wife tells me she will have supper ready by 6:00 pm. I believe her, and have faith in her that what she says is true, and that is when supper will be.
Faith is confidence in the word of another. We all exercise faith every day.
If you use a taxi you must put your faith in his word that he will take you where he asks you, and not to some wooded area and mug you. That is faith.

Your "saving faith" is when one puts their faith in Christ. IOW, it is the object of the faith that becomes important. Children put their faith in parents; an unsaved person must put his faith in Christ for salvation.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
--To which child of the devil does he give spiritual fruit to? Please explain? Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
--To which of these does he give spiritual gifts to?

These are non elect being sent to hell. Oh wait...you do not really believe in election do you?

What do I deduce from your answer here Icon?
--Are you a universalist?
--Do you deny that all have a depraved nature?
--Were you born as a child of God and escaped being a child of the devil?
--Or just because you consider yourself as one of the elect does that mean you don't have to be "born again"?

You seem to deny some very essential truths by the answer you gave to the scripture I gave you.
The verses John 8:44; Rev.21:8 speak of the unsaved. Especially John 8:44 when Christ was speaking to those that were unsaved but some of whom may have been saved later on--such as Saul (the Apostle Paul), who also was a member of the Sanhedrin, a Pharisee, a child of the devil.
--But you declared Saul a child of the devil, one of the non-elect.
On what authority do you claim some people elect and others condemned to Hell, Icon? Who gives you that authority??

This is not the pelagian board...it is the BB.

This is a Baptist board, not an "Icon-board," not a Calvinist board, or any other "privileged" board. You don't agree with me. You don't have to resort to name calling.

My statement simply said: "A person must first come to Christ."
That is what the Bible says.
Check: Acts 16:31; 10:43; John 5:24; 1:12; 3:16; 3:36; Rom.10:9,10; Eph.2:8,9; 1Cor.15:1-4; and dozens of other scripture. I stand on the Word of God, not on imagination.

 

[The Biblicist]

Faith is the gift of God.

Faith is innate to the nature of man, just as "joy" and "love" and "hope" are innate to the nature of man. However, what is not innate to the nature of man is God's type of faith, joy, hope and love simply because all of God's type are rooted in his own nature and not in human nature, and that is why WE MUST BE BORN OF GOD - receive His nature.

1. Thus saving faith, the ability to savingly submit to Christ is foreign to our depraved nature - Rom. 8:7-8 and is the "work of God" - Jn. 6:29

2. God first must GIVE men to Christ in order for them to "come" to him - Jn. 6:36 in contrast to John 6:37. Note the future tense "shall come" as the conseuqence of already having been given to Christ by the Father.

3. God first must DRAW men to Christ in order for any man to "come" to him - Jn. 6:44 and God did not draw "some disicples" including Judas to come to Christ in real saving faith (Jn. 6:64-65).

Regeneration and conversion are inseparable as much as repentance and faith are inseparable. They have a logical order but they do not have any chronological order and the logical order is spiritual life before spiritual activity.

 

[pinoybaptist]

PYB

none of you have responded to God's use of means in the book of Jonah.
In fact you and others were saying God is not in control of a mosquito who bites someone.....

let me refresh your memory..you said this;


respond to these verses then;

17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.


And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah

6 And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief.

7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered


8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live

You still don't get it, Icon.
God sent Jonah to Nineveh at that point of history to preach repentance to the people of Nineveh.
Their repentance does not equate to their eternal salvation. Perhaps some of them were God's elect, perhaps all of Nineveh at that time were God's elect (which is unlikely).

That God sent Jonah to them to preach repentance simply points to the Scriptural principle that in the case of His people their repentance is proof of God having worked in their hearts already (especially the king's, whom the people follow) to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.)

God knew they will repent because He had already prepared their hearts for such repentance, and God was demonstrating through those events for our benefit here in our time that the call to repent, and the answering thereto, benefits His people, here in time.

Again, I remind you of Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

God is involved with everything in the created universes for His Divine purpose....He used means here...he uses means to apply the perfect atonement to the elect.

God controls the effects of sin in His created universe, but He is not responsible for its effects. He does not use sin, or tragedy, or death, or disease, to further His divine purposes for His elect.
Deadly diseases strike because this is a fallen world.
In an unfallen good and perfect one, there would be none of those.

As I've said before in the other thread: the fate (if you like to call it that way, since you refer to this as "fatalistic") of His elect people, all of them, even the as yet unborn has been sealed and determined by (1) the cross being past, (2) the blood being shed, (3) the tomb being empty.
Their going to heaven is unstoppable. The hell-bound are unredeemable.
So you see, those "fatalistic" statements have everything to do with these discussions.
How you view them (done, ongoing, or whatever) has everything to do with the soteriology you hold.

The atonement is over, no thanks to any means, nor anybody save Christ and His blood.
The elect still to be born have had their sins already atoned for, what is waiting to happen to them is regeneration, and if God wills, to be brought under the care of one of His true undershepherds, for nourishment, protection, and instruction in gospel living in this time world on their way to their true home.
The atonement is already applied, without means, save the blood of Christ.
What I can see from your posts is your insistence, just like Arminians do, that repentance and the gospel is connected to eternal salvation.
Is that correct ?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Would you agree that the Great Commission to "all nations" is general? Luke's version of the commission states:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Yes, because Revelations 5:9 says so: And they sung a new song, saying , Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain , and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

God's people, whose names are in His book, live and lived everywhere on this planet, here in time, in every corner, island, islet, continent, or sub-continent, wherever man is found (as the song says), in every segment of time and history. However. not all of His people will go under gospel instruction, gospel preaching, or the gospel "call", simply because the agency by which God chose to implement time salvation is man, who is NOT omnipresent.

Or do you believe that "all nations" and "Jerusalem" merely stand for those already regenerated??

see above, as to "all nations". "Jerusalem" as "Israel" does stands for God's people, all His elect, regenerate or as yet, unregenerate.

Do you believe the elect or regenerate are in danger of perishing?


Lk. 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

It seems here that Jesus is arguing in the very reverse of your premise? He is denying that repentance is just for specific persons but rather is a command to "all" just as he is denying that the incidents that caused the death of specific ones listed restricted sinfulness to just those killed but ALL are just as sinful. Hence, his call to repentance is universal "all" rather than to specific individuals.

No. I do not believe God's elect (not just the regenerates) are in any danger of perishing in the lake of fire.
The fact of sin is universal.
Paul addressed that in Romans 1.
That is what He went up the cross, to atone for His people, only them, to shed His blood for His people, only them, to redeem His people from the bondage of sin and their debts, only them.
However, don't you think if He were speaking of "hellfire" above He would have said so already ?
I do not hold that any of His regenerate own can live a life of sin, and not suffer the consequences, here in this time world.
What I do hold to is that God does NOT DEMAND repentance of anyone spiritually (as yet) incapable of doing so.
Preaching repentance, and requiring it, are two different things.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together , as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! (Luke 13:34/Matthew 23:37).

You preach gospel living in your church, I assume, you communicate the word, do you visit each and every member and monitor their lives ?
I'm sure you don't.
We don't.
Once the word is taught, then it is the responsibility of the hearer to do the word.
Primitive Baptists are not antinomians, as suggested by somebody in another thread.

 

[pinoybaptist]

pinoybaptist

This is declared to be true from Gods point of view. No one can question this.

You keep mixing up the accomplishment of redemption...payment by blood,
by the Lamb of God. His person and work...and the application of redemption through the preaching and teaching of the gospel...Here in Rev 5:9 for example...You say...it is by the blood.....yes it is...however it is the proclamation of the gospel that this blood payment for sinners is explained and proclaimed....

You are saying two different things here. The statement bolded in "purple" I can agree with. That is what gospel teaching is all about. It is good news of a Savior who paid with His own blood the sin debt of the sinner. I have no issues with that. That is why Christ sent out His apostles, why He gave to His church preachers, teachers, etc.

The one bolded in "blue" I simply cannot agree with. The preaching and teaching of the gospel is not in any way the means by which redemption is applied.

The redemption of His people stands, whether they know it or not. Do you understand that human beings are limited in presence and movement ?
That is why it is the BLOOD, not the gospel.
The BLOOD, spilled in eternity past by the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and in time at Calvary.
The blood flows and covers time, and continents, and history.
It covers every elect that ever existed anywhere, everywhere, in all segments of chronology, independent of any restrictive, or prohibitive, aspects of their fallen lives in this fallen world.
The gospel has not reached the Eskimos that lived in BC times, but if God has His people there, His blood covered them as well.
The gospel has not reached the ancestors of American or Southern Asian indians, or descendants of Filipinos, or Japanese, or Vietnamese, or Chinese, or Europeans, in the BC times, but if God had any of His elect among them, His blood, shed by His son, did.

It is 4 a.m., Icon, for some reason I was awakened at 2 a.m.
Facebook told me why.
A cousin I grew up with, or rather, whom I helped raise, as a younger brother, was shot three times, mistaken identity, in the Philippines, results unknown as yet.
I gotta take a few winks before going to work.
I'll catcha later.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is 4 a.m., Icon, for some reason I was awakened at 2 a.m.
Facebook told me why.
A cousin I grew up with, or rather, whom I helped raise, as a younger brother, was shot three times, mistaken identity, in the Philippines, results unknown as yet.
I gotta take a few winks before going to work.
I'll catcha later.

My condolences Brother Tim.

 

[pinoybaptist]

My condolences Brother Tim.

just got pm'd by his niece.
looks like the lucky sonavagun is going to make it.
3 shots from a .45 from a distance ?
:laugh:
looks like he got one in the back, one in the leg, and one in the thigh.
he wasn't the target.
he was talking with a friend outside the friend's house, the friend suddenly started to run, he started to run, not knowing why the friend was running :laugh: then he heard shots, next thing he knows, he's in hospital.
lots of loose firearms over there, brother.
we got a city in a province where almost everybody born and raised there is an expert gunsmith.
and still Marcos was able to impose Martial Law in his time.:BangHead:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Matthew 12:41, "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." Here we see that "the men of Nineveh" repented and the chances they were regenerated, saved and elect is nill.

Luke 5:32, " I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” The saved, elect and regenerate are righteous in the eyes of God. Therefore this call goes to sinners in general, including lost, unsaved, sinners.

Luke 13:3, " I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." If this truth is applied to the saved, then a works sustained salvation is being taught. Thus, the requirement to repent must apply to the unsaved.

Luke 24:47, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Again, the saved, regenerate, and elect have already been forgiven, thus this aspect of repentance must apply to the lost, unsaved, unregenerates, i.e. all sinners needing forgiveness.

Acts 20:21, "solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Clearly the call to repentance is not limited to those saved, but to those who have not as yet, put their faith in Christ.

Revelation 2:21, "I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality." Jezebel was not saved, elect or regenerate. Thus the call to repent is made to the unsaved.

hi, van.
sorry I wasn't able to reply.
no disrespect meant.
I'll check in with you later tonight.
initially, though, I'd like to remind you of Romans 15:4, the Bible was written for believers and God's people, and them only. Any instruction we find therein, any reference to events in the past and how God dealt with His people or those not His people, and how it affected its people, is for us, and I daresay, for us of this generation, "upon whom the end of the world has come".

Secondly, the Jezebel spoken about was not the Phoenician princess married to Ahab, but her name was used to characterize that church that the Lord ordered to repent because of their conduct which reflected the idolatry and wanton character of Jezebel. So the call to repent was still to His people, the church being criticized in that verse.

got to work.
see ya later.

 

[Van]

Anyone can nullify scripture by rewriting it. Add a qualifier and viola, Jezebel becomes symbolic of unrepentant believers. But that interpretation is liberal, i.e. reading between the lines to alter what is actually written. This is how the text is manipulated to support doctrine.

In this case, about a half dozen verses must be said to not mean what they say. For example John wrote so that we might believe, thus to non-believers. That is what he actually wrote.

I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, because Revelations 5:9 says so: And they sung a new song, saying , Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain , and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Luke is describing the total audience "TO" which they are to go preaching repentance, whereas, John is actually denying your interpretation as he qualifies who the elect are "OUT OF" all nations. By no stretch of imagination can you make "all nations" EQUAL "OUT OF" all nations.

see above, as to "all nations". "Jerusalem" as "Israel" does stands for God's people, all His elect, regenerate or as yet, unregenerate.

Again, you are ignoring the wording of the scripture and rewording it to fit your views. He is talking about LOCATIONS where they should begin and end. LOCATIONS do not stand for God's elect. Jerusalem is given as a LOCATION to begin preaching. Samaria is given as a LOCATION to preach. "UNTO" the uttermost parts of the earth describes the LOCATION unto which they are to go preaching.

No. I do not believe God's elect (not just the regenerates) are in any danger of perishing in the lake of fire.....However, don't you think if He were speaking of "hellfire" above He would have said so already ?

He is not addressing disciples but "some" (Lk. 13:1)in his audience of unbelievers who believed the physical death of such persons were objects of God's wrath because of their sins. Saved people are no longer under God's wrath, and therefore Jesus could not possibly be speaking of the elect. He is speaking of the unrepentant lost person whose ultimate end is perishing under God's wrath just as He uses the word "perish" in John 3;16 in contrast to those believing.

Justifying faith is impossible apart from gospel repentance, as gospel repentance is a change of mind - change from unbelief to belief.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK
The strawman groweth...major strawman alert

...Can you post without being dishonest???

As Rippon stated earlier?;

The above is just a sample of your all-too-typical MO. You deliberately attribute the worst kind of utter nonsense to someone from thin air. Icon said nothing that would lead to any of the above absurdities. You need to just stop with your dishonesty.

When others put regeneration deliberately before salvation and sometimes days and even weeks before salvation IMO, it is close to heresy. They are simultaneous. There is no strawman here. It is truth vs. error. The example of Cornelius, is sometimes used by some to say that he was regenerated long before Peter reached there. Such theology is nonsense.

I have never posted such a thing. It is not what I believe. My view that all of these gifts happen at one point in time has NEVER changed.
I have posted several dozen times the same thing on BB.IN fact ...You have continued with your ungodly accusations about this very topic in reference to me several times and I have asked you to stop as it is dishonest and unchristian to do so.
Here is some of what I have posted;

Quote:
Originally Posted by convicted1 View Post
I see faith and regeneration as something that happens simultaneously...or I at least lean that way...

This is indeed correct....

Quote:
Originally Posted by thisnumbersdisconnected View Post
And that should settle that. But (unfortunately) it won't.

There is no faithless regenerated believers.....but there is no saving faith without the Spirit's regenerating the sinner. Regeneration and faith happen at new birth.

Thank you for this helpful post REFORMED it sounds like a section I read today from Redemption ,Accomplished and Applied, by J.Murray,pg 103

Regeneration is the beginning of all saving grace in us, and all saving grace in exercise on our part proceeds from the fountain of regeneration.

We are not born again by faith or repentance or conversion: we repent and believe because we have been regenerated.

No one can say in truth that Jesus is the Christ except by regeneration of the Spirit and that is one of the ways by which the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ.

The embrace of Christ in faith is the first evidence of regeneration and only thus may we know that we have been regenerated.


The priority 0f regeneration might create the impression that a person could be regenerated and not yet converted. These passages in 1 jn should correct any such misapprehension....1 jn 3:9,5:4,5:18

When put together these texts expressly state that every regenerate person has been delivered from the power of sin, overcomes the world by the faith of Christ, and exercises that self control by which he is no longer the slave of sin and of the evil one.
[/QUOTE]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=91595&highlight=regeneration&page=5

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

just got pm'd by his niece.
looks like the lucky sonavagun is going to make it.
3 shots from a .45 from a distance ?
:laugh:
looks like he got one in the back, one in the leg, and one in the thigh.
he wasn't the target.
he was talking with a friend outside the friend's house, the friend suddenly started to run, he started to run, not knowing why the friend was running :laugh: then he heard shots, next thing he knows, he's in hospital.
lots of loose firearms over there, brother.
we got a city in a province where almost everybody born and raised there is an expert gunsmith.
and still Marcos was able to impose Martial Law in his time.:BangHead:

He took one in the back with a .45 & he is alive!!!! Musta been a heck of a distance.

 

[DHK]

DHK
The strawman groweth...major strawman alert

...Can you post without being dishonest???

Yes, of course. I am not dishonest. It seems that way to you when you contradict yourself.

I have never posted such a thing. It is not what I believe. My view that all of these gifts happen at one point in time has NEVER changed.
I have posted several dozen times the same thing on BB.IN fact ...You have continued with your ungodly accusations about this very topic in reference to me several times and I have asked you to stop as it is dishonest and unchristian to do so.

The view that God gives faith to the unbeliever is an unscriptural view, whether you believe it happens at the same time or not. We know that the Calvinist, for the purposes of their own theology has an ordu salutis (sp?). It is: regeneration, faith, salvation. I believe you agree with that--For all intents and purposes that faith, though it precedes salvation, does not precede regeneration. If it did then somehow it would take away from "God's work of regeneration" and become a work of man, which is an entirely ridiculous viewpoint, for faith is not a work.
Romans 4:1-5 teaches clearly that faith is not a work. It sets it in clear opposition to works.
Faith precedes both regeneration and salvation which happen simultaneously. A man has faith during the sum total of his life. Little children have faith. Faith is not supernatural. Little children put faith in their parents. Some day the object of their faith will become Jesus Christ (if they are of the elect). When the object of their faith is in Christ, then they will be saved. Faith is faith. Then God will add to that faith. That faith will grow, as their personal relationship with the Lord will grow. It is called sanctification.

Thank you for this helpful post REFORMED it sounds like a section I read today from Redemption ,Accomplished and Applied, by J.Murray,pg 103

Regeneration is the beginning of all saving grace in us, and all saving grace in exercise on our part proceeds from the fountain of regeneration.

Here is your contradiction. You said all happens simultaneously. Now you don't. Now you say Regeneration comes first. It is at the beginning. It is not simultaneous at all. Make up your mind!

We are not born again by faith or repentance or conversion: we repent and believe because we have been regenerated.

The previous statements at the beginning of this post are further contradicted. What does John 1:12 say about the new birth?

But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe in his name.
This is speaking of the new birth as verse 13 goes on to explain..."which were born of God." It comes by receiving him...believing in his name."
Note why Israel were not regenerated. By their own free will, they rejected him (vs.11).
"He came to his own, but his own received him not."

No one can say in truth that Jesus is the Christ except by regeneration of the Spirit and that is one of the ways by which the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ.

A man does not go into the middle of a forest and is suddenly and mysteriously regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
He is regenerated by the Holy Spirit working through the Word of God, which he must believe (1Pet.1:23).
"Born again through the Word of God." Belief in the Word of God is an essential. That Word is the gospel.

The embrace of Christ in faith is the first evidence of regeneration and only thus may we know that we have been regenerated.

I know I have been regenerated when I have trusted Christ. It is an act of God to be sure. But it comes after I have decided to come to him, and not before. I must make that decision.

The priority 0f regeneration might create the impression that a person could be regenerated and not yet converted. These passages in 1 jn should correct any such misapprehension....1 jn 3:9,5:4,5:18

When put together these texts expressly state that every regenerate person has been delivered from the power of sin, overcomes the world by the faith of Christ, and exercises that self control by which he is no longer the slave of sin and of the evil one.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=91595&highlight=regeneration&page=5[/QUOTE]
Agreed, except that it is impossible for one to be regenerated without one putting their faith in Christ first.

 

[Jerome]

Somebody, I no longer remember if it was Iconoclast, quoted Acts 17:30 which stated, among other things, that NOW GOD COMMANDETH ALL MEN TO REPENT.

The command, therefore, following the principle of exclusivity, excludes those that are not His, and of inclusivity, includes all (unconditional election follows this principle) of His people among men.

II Helv. 10:6

http://www.esvbible.org/resources/creeds-and-catechisms/article-the-second-helvetic-confession-1566

"we do not allow of the wicked speeches of some who say, Few are chosen, and seeing I know not whether I am in the number of these few, I will defraud my nature of her desires. Others there are who say, If I be predestinated and chosen of God, nothing can hinder me from salvation, which is already certainly appointed for me, whatsoever I do at any time; but if I be in the number of the reprobate, no faith or repentance will help me, seeing the decree of God can not be changed: therefore all teachings and admonitions are to no purpose. Now, against these men the saying of the apostle makes much, “The servants of God must be apt to teach, instructing those that are contrary-minded, proving if God at any time will give them repentance, that they may come to amendment out of the snare of the devil, which are taken of him at his pleasure” (2 Tim 2:24-26)."

 

[pinoybaptist]

II Helv. 10:6

http://www.esvbible.org/resources/creeds-and-catechisms/article-the-second-helvetic-confession-1566

"we do not allow of the wicked speeches of some who say, Few are chosen, and seeing I know not whether I am in the number of these few, I will defraud my nature of her desires. Others there are who say, If I be predestinated and chosen of God, nothing can hinder me from salvation, which is already certainly appointed for me, whatsoever I do at any time; but if I be in the number of the reprobate, no faith or repentance will help me, seeing the decree of God can not be changed: therefore all teachings and admonitions are to no purpose. Now, against these men the saying of the apostle makes much, “The servants of God must be apt to teach, instructing those that are contrary-minded, proving if God at any time will give them repentance, that they may come to amendment out of the snare of the devil, which are taken of him at his pleasure” (2 Tim 2:24-26)."

Hi, Jerome. What is it you are saying ? Thank you.

 

[Jerome]

Hadn't seen that scripture posted yet.

Do you think it's applicable?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Hadn't seen that scripture posted yet.

Do you think it's applicable?

Yes, it is. It doesn't mean preaching the gospel to evangelize God's people is futile, though, especially in a church setting because who knows if God just brought in one of His own for nourishing.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, it is. It doesn't mean preaching the gospel to evangelize God's people is futile, though, especially in a church setting because who knows if God just brought in one of His own for nourishing.

The gospel message is what the Lord uses to save his own people, so keep on preaching the Cross!

 

[pinoybaptist]

The gospel message is what the Lord uses to save his own people, so keep on preaching the Cross!

Allow me with due respects to use the phrase "gospelly save His people".:thumbs::jesus: