Can saved people drink alchoholic wine and really be saved?

[standingfirminChrist]

In defense of KJVKid...

He did not say BaptistBeleiver did not know the Sinless Son of God. He said he did not know much about Him.

I cannot see where he questioned his salvation.

 

[Dale-c]

In defense of KJVKid...

He did not say BaptistBeleiver did not know the Sinless Son of God. He said he did not know much about Him.

I cannot see where he questioned his salvation.

And if you do believe that this is an issue that may signify that one is not truly saved, there is a way to post in the poll without pointing fingers.
in the second poll question, it allows that someone who drinks may be saved but it puts doubt tin the minds of those that believe that all wine is wrong.

That way there is no finger point and you can stay within the guidelines of the rules here but still state your beliefs.

 

[Nicholas25]

A. Yes
B. Those who drink it are sinning
C. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Since God's Word says "Look thou not" I am willing to state that God's definition of how much it takes one to get drunk is much lower than that of those who advocate drinking in moderation.

Could 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 be talking about the Kingdom of God after the tribulation?

 

[Palatka51]

You are adding to the Bible.

Gluttony is also a sin.
Why not avoid it altogether by not eating?
I realize that for some people it would be wise not to go to certain restaurants where they would be tempted to eat too much. It is also wise for someone who can't control themselves not to drink at all if they have no control.
BUt to impose your own set of rules on others is exactly what the Pharisees did.

Dale-c

It is you my friend that started this survey. Why are you side tracking to gluttony? Maybe you aught to start a survey to get men's take on whether eating will send you to hell.

It is now apparent to me that you have started this thread to spark an argument and that you have. I graciously give you the argument of the year award.
Now you have my permission to pop the cork and celebrate your accomplishment. Go ahead enjoy your self. You have what you wanted all along, my permission. After all, my permission should assuage your guilt. :wavey:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Bible says we are not even to consider, not to experience, not to approve of wine in the fermented state.

Why does there have to be a poll seeking approval to disobey the Word of God?

 

[webdog]

The Bible says we are not even to consider, not to experience, not to approve of wine in the fermented state.

It is found in the New Old Testament, II Opinions chapter 3...

 

[Dale-c]

It is now apparent to me that you have started this thread to spark an argument and that you have.

An argument? No an honest discussion? Yes.
No I haven't gotten out of it what I was looking for
I would like a serious debate.
I would also like you and others to actually answer the question:
Is drinking a sign that some one either is not or at least probably is not a christian?
I can't seem to get a straight answer.

 

[Dale-c]

The Bible says we are not even to consider, not to experience, not to approve of wine in the fermented state.

Why does there have to be a poll seeking approval to disobey the Word of God?

Could you please use scripture to back up your statements?

I will admit that there are a couple of texts out of the 200 plus in the Bible that could pose a problem to my position if taken in isolation.
However, if you harmonize all of the bible together you will not find that anywhere.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I have given the Scripture many times on this board. I am sure you have seen it.

 

[Dale-c]

It is found in II Opinions chapter 3...

Yikes!!! I can't even find that in the MacSword module I have....I might have to download a new one.

I thought I had the complete Bible.
BUt now I find out there are 68 books...or are there more?

Ok, joking aside.

Please, SFIC, show us where each of those things that you mentioned are prohibited?
Thanks

 

[Palatka51]

The Bible says we are not even to consider, not to experience, not to approve of wine in the fermented state.

Why does there have to be a poll seeking approval to disobey the Word of God?

They seek our approval to lessen their guilt of disobedience. I have no guilt and need not seek ones approval for not drinking. Although not drinking may have cost me a couple of job promotions. Hey I think I have stumbled on why I detest the use of alcohol as a beverage in the first place. Thank you SFIC. :godisgood:

 

[Dale-c]

After all, my permission should assuage your guilt.

I don't have any guilt about this because it isn't wrong.
It is also interesting to note that I never drank a drop of wine until I had thoroughly studied the issue.
Even now I drink very little. I am not looking for an excuse here.
I can take it or leave it.

 

[Dale-c]

They seek our approval to lessen their guilt of disobedience.

Do me a favor and stopped judging the hearts of others.

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Saying that I am looking for approval is ridiculous.
Argue with the subject, not with ad hominem.
Please show me, from scripture where all uses of wine are wrong.
It shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Baptist Believer]

It is clear that you don't know much about wine or alcoholic beverages. by baptist "believer"

That’s what I said, but not to you. It was in response to some ridiculous claims that half a glass of wine lowers everyone’s inhibitions and allows them to enter into sexual immorality to which they would not enter if they did not have those three or four ounces of wine. The other poster strongly insinuated that sexual immorality would be very rare if alcoholic beverages were banned. Views like that don’t seem to take the biblical view of our sin nature very seriously.

Respectfully sir, it seems to me you don't know much about the Sinless Son of God.

Well, I know the sinless Son of God personally, and I happen to be one of His disciples. I’ve carefully studied His life and have tried to enact his teaching and disciplines into my life with varying success.

Do you know the qualifications of the High Priest?

I’m not sure what you are driving at, but I have a pretty good understanding of it. However, if you are trying to say Jesus was subject to the rules of temple, then you would be mistaken. Jesus was not of the tribe of Levi which was required for the ministry of the temple. Instead, the New Testament makes it explicitly clear that the priesthood of Jesus surpassed the priesthood of Aaron, and that Jesus is a “priest forever in the order of Melchizedek” (see Hebrews 5:6). Of course, Melchizedek, the king of Salem, is mentioned in the book of Genesis as one who brought “bread and wine” to Abram (see Genesis 14:18)!

Do you know that in Christ there was no sin nor guile found in His mouth?

Sure. Are you also following his example by being honest with scripture instead of trying to twist it to meet your presuppositions?

Do you know He didn't even accept the "vinegar" offered to Him on the cross?

He didn’t accept the narcotic “vinegar” on the cross, but the scriptural evidence demonstrates He did drink wine. A natural reading of the accusations of the Pharisees, as well as a straightforward reading of the wedding at Cana demonstrate that.

As someone who strives to interpret scripture according to the plain sense of the text instead of a theological/social agenda, I can come to no other conclusion. And moreover, this modern view of abstinence from alcohol is has only been around for only about 180 years in the United States. Lyman Beecher started his Temperance Society in 1825 that stressed abstinence from all forms of alcohol. Before that time (and significantly after), Baptists freely used alcoholic beverages in moderation. So what you are advocating is not actually the old way, but something very new in Christian life.

Yet you say The Lord Jesus drank alcohol? That's despicable!!

That’s because I hold to what I believe the Bible actually teaches. The longer I look at this issue, the more obvious it becomes. By the way, thanks for mentioning the “high priest” angle. I’ve never really noticed (in the context of a discussion of alcohol) that Melchizedek (the type of Christ in the Old Testament) gave bread and wine to Abram. If you claim that Melchizedek is despicable for providing wine to Abram, then by correlation, you are condemning Christ for giving his followers bread and wine.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Just letting EVERYONE know that questioning the eternal salvation by God's grace of ANY OTHER BELIEVER HERE will result in you looking at posts from the outside, suspended.

To say that someone is not saved based on whether they drink (or are baptized or are a member of a denomination, or if they smoke, chew or dance with girls that do) is absurd and an afront to our Lord. I'd ask you simply to "Grow up."

Now, go do the right thing.

 

[webdog]

They seek our approval to lessen their guilt of disobedience. I have no guilt and need not seek ones approval for not drinking. Although not drinking may have cost me a couple of job promotions. Hey I think I have stumbled on why I detest the use of alcohol as a beverage in the first place. Thank you SFIC. :godisgood:

I have no guilt, nor do I need anybody's approval to do so...so please quit with the labeling and judging. Deut. 14:26 is pretty straightforward, and only a severe twisting of the text brings us to your flawed conclusions.

 

[webdog]

Yikes!!! I can't even find that in the MacSword module I have....I might have to download a new one.

I thought I had the complete Bible.
BUt now I find out there are 68 books...or are there more?

Ok, joking aside.

Please, SFIC, show us where each of those things that you mentioned are prohibited?
Thanks

Oh yes! II Opinions is the book that deals with alcohol, smoking, CCM, dancing, KJVO, women's dresses and head coverings! It was published by Pharasaical Publishing Co.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I couldn't find the "Yes" option so I voted "I don't like any of the options so I will post my own on the thread."

 

[EdSutton]

Polls are a joke. Like if more people say it is one way, it has to be that way no matter what the Word of God says.

I cannot vote in the poll for that reason.

The OP did ask for honesty, I believe. I have seen where you have voted in other polls, though. Why not this one?

I admit up front I rarely vote in any poll, including this one, for I seldom like the options, including here (I did say rarely, not that I never do, for I have voted in a couple.), and often post in the thread to that effect. However, to my memory, this is the first time I have seen you say this, in two years. Why, now, the change of heart? Just curious.

Ed

 

[Dale-c]

I admit up front I rarely vote in any poll, including this one, for I seldom like the options, including here (I did say rarely, not that I never do, for I have voted in a couple.), and often post in the thread to that effect. However, to my memory, this is the first time I have seen you say this, in two years. Why, now, the change of heart? Just curious.

I would like to know the same thing.
The others that have not liked the way I worded some of the questions explained what they really believe.

SFIC has on several occasions hinted that he didn't think people are saved who drink.
The problem is that you can't say that without getting suspended.
With this poll, I have tried to allow him to say what he really believes without pointing fingers because I would like to know without getting him or anyone else removed from this forum.