Can saved people drink alchoholic wine and really be saved?

[Baptist Believer]

I try and I try to memorize more of the "rules" every day. Thank you

Then you are following in the false gospel of sin management (the way of the Pharisees) where you are focusing on externals instead of transformation. That's also known as "cleaning the outside of the cup" or making yourself a "whitewashed tomb".

The way of Jesus is to build a transformed character by following in His footsteps, doing what He did in the ways of discipline (prayer, scripture memorization, fasting, good works, worship, relaxation, celebration, giving, fellowship, etc...) allowing the Holy Spirit to transform your character ("cleaning the inside of the cup") in the process. When you become the kind of person who has no interest in drunkenness, then alcohol is very safe for your because you will take precautions not to overindulge. At that point you are truly free from its power.

Regarding the sin of drunkenness, I have NEVER had any desire whatsoever to be intoxicated with any substance, therefore, this sin is not a temptation in my life. Now there are a number of other sins which have the potential to overtake me if I indulge in certain activities, so I purposefully avoid those when I can. I am not free in those areas... yet. But as I grow in Christ, I will one day be free.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The way of Jesus is to build a transformed character by following in His footsteps, doing what He did in the ways of discipline (prayer, scripture memorization, fasting, good works, worship, relaxation, celebration, giving, fellowship, etc...) allowing the Holy Spirit to transform your character

If one truly wants to follow in Jesus' footsteps, one will not drink alcoholic beverages. Christ did not drink alcoholic beverages Himself.

 

[KJVkid]

Then you are following in the false gospel of sin management (the way of the Pharisees) where you are focusing on externals instead of transformation. That's also known as "cleaning the outside of the cup" or making yourself a "whitewashed tomb".

The way of Jesus is to build a transformed character by following in His footsteps, doing what He did in the ways of discipline (prayer, scripture memorization, fasting, good works, worship, relaxation, celebration, giving, fellowship, etc...) allowing the Holy Spirit to transform your character ("cleaning the inside of the cup") in the process. When you become the kind of person who has no interest in drunkenness, then alcohol is very safe for your because you will take precautions not to overindulge. At that point you are truly free from its power.

Regarding the sin of drunkenness, I have NEVER had any desire whatsoever to be intoxicated with any substance, therefore, this sin is not a temptation in my life. Now there are a number of other sins which have the potential to overtake me if I indulge in certain activities, so I purposefully avoid those when I can. I am not free in those areas... yet. But as I grow in Christ, I will one day be free.



Yeah Right :BangHead:

 

[webdog]

thanks for repeating his post...it is well worth reading again (even though it will not apparently sink in)

 

[Joe]

IF the Bible would be silent on the consumption of alcohol don't you people think about your testamony to the lost? I mean even the lost world frowns on a "Christian" drinking alcohol.

"BE YE SEPARATE" 2 Corinthians 6:14-18

Absolutely! Christians and non-Christians alike notice the way we live, not just our talk.

We are sometimes asked about our 16 year old son. He runs three days a week, works out with weights, eats very healthy, appears physically fit, reads food labels before consumption, eats very little meat, he’s well educated regarding nutrition, holds a job, etc....
He has integrity regarding his mind and his body. A wise soul for just 16 years old.

He hasn’t been raised around people who use marijuana, use alcohol, majority eat very healthy (lots of vegans/vegetarians). One friend of ours is an alcoholic, he also eats healthy and exercises. Doesn't bring it around me or my family. A few friends don’t eat healthy or exercise, they are older yet are wonderful Christian role-models. Didn't spend the night with others really (unless they were good friends of ours) or have babysitters. We have no TV, only watch pre-screened movies. None-very little alcohol indoctrination went into his mind. He also screens his movies now, before ordering them from netflix. We watch movies together.

He was taught that alcohol lowers your inhibitions by us and through his DARE program at school.

I know the way we live is a testimony to our Lord and others, including our Pastor. Because of our healthy and active lifestyle, I was asked by our Pastor to work with the youth. He said parents had recommended me.
Now that is just weird, because I feel so insecure at church, it blew me away.


Never forget “Be ye separate……..” It's easy and they do notice!

 

[TCGreek]

Didn't Paul say Deacons could drink some but not get drunk? (1 Tim 3:8) Am I missing something from what Paul said? Are our translations correct in their rendering of the Greek?

 

[Trotter]

My wife and I had a discussion on this the other night.

We are both tee-totalers and we do not go to restaurants that serve alcohol in any form. Even so, we talked about a Christian having an alcoholic drink. We know serval people who are Christian (and even Baptist) who have an occasional drink. Does this mean they are unsaved? No, it means they are giving a poor example, but their salvation is not in question.

Having a beer or a glass of wine is not going to send someone to hell. It can be compared to smoking a cigarette, saying a cuss word, or overeating (whoops, done gone to meddlin'). For one who knows to do good and doesn't do it, it becomes sin to him, and this is the same thing.

Loss of salvation? No. Proof of no salvation? No. Poor example? Yes. Loss of potential heavenly rewards? Yes.

Oh, and if getting drunk sends someone to hell, better make room for all us fat people, too. As well as smokers, speeding drivers, road ragers, etc, etc, etc...

 

[KJVkid]

I don't think anybody here ever said drinking alcohol will send a person to hell. The only thing that send one to hell is rejecting Christ. However for a "Christian" to drink alcohol is a terrible testimony. For one to say Jesus Christ drank liquor is blasphemy.

 

[Trotter]

Wine is not liquer. And distillation wasn't around then.

Meh, I added my two cents... and that's about all it is worth.

 

[TCGreek]

Paul does seem to think that drinking wine in his day would cause one to lose his Christian testimony (1 Tim 3). Where did you guys read that?

 

[PK]

This is but one example of wine being a blessing from God.

It in no way implies that you HAVE to drink. I don't care if you do or don't.
I do care when people deny the word of God and make it a condition for salvation.

Is this good corn, good grape juice, and good oil? Or is it moldy corn, fermented grape juice, and bad oil. I don't think this would be good the case.

 

[tinytim]

Then you are following in the false gospel of sin management (the way of the Pharisees) where you are focusing on externals instead of transformation. That's also known as "cleaning the outside of the cup" or making yourself a "whitewashed tomb".

The way of Jesus is to build a transformed character by following in His footsteps, doing what He did in the ways of discipline (prayer, scripture memorization, fasting, good works, worship, relaxation, celebration, giving, fellowship, etc...) allowing the Holy Spirit to transform your character ("cleaning the inside of the cup") in the process. When you become the kind of person who has no interest in drunkenness, then alcohol is very safe for your because you will take precautions not to overindulge. At that point you are truly free from its power.

Regarding the sin of drunkenness, I have NEVER had any desire whatsoever to be intoxicated with any substance, therefore, this sin is not a temptation in my life. Now there are a number of other sins which have the potential to overtake me if I indulge in certain activities, so I purposefully avoid those when I can. I am not free in those areas... yet. But as I grow in Christ, I will one day be free.

GREAT post!!!
You did a great job describing true Christianity as opposed to a Christianity that has been hijacked by a bunch of Judaizers...

Christ came to break loose the shackles of legalism...
Don't let anyone put back on what Christ has removed.

Christianity is about a relationship with Christ.
Not a list of rules...

Rules were given to show we need a relationship.
Those worshipping the rules, and the fact that they keep them, will one day find themselves in Hell reveiwing their checklist wondering which rule they broke..

Thank God for Grace!
Anything but Grace will send you to Hell.

Beware of Judaizers... don't let them bewitch you!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Don't let false teachers deceive you.

2 Timothy 4:3-5 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Many have risen already and deny the sinless character of the Lord Jesus Christ... putting the bottle to His hand and to His lips.

 

[PK]

I totally agree that it does come down to this on what a person chooses to do.
It does not come down to the priesthood of the believer to decide what they want the Bible to say.

Forcing others to drink or not drink just as I do would be wrong.
Denying the scriptures to fit with my personal opinion is wrong as well.


BTW, I don't even like wine for those that are wondering.

I have been told many times that people who defend the moderate use of Alcohol just do so because they "love their sin".
I don't like wine and I can't stand beer.
I only drink wine for my health.

Is it the grape juice part of wine that is good for your health or the fermented part that is good for your health?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Is it the grape juice part of wine that is good for your health or the fermented part that is good for your health?

Many would have us believe that the good is that which Solomon warned against.

At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder.

 

[Allan]

Didn't Paul say Deacons could drink some but not get drunk? (1 Tim 3:8) Am I missing something from what Paul said? Are our translations correct in their rendering of the Greek?

Didn't Paul say Bishops/Pastors should not drink at all? (1 Tim 3:3) Am I missing something from what Paul said? Are our translations correct in their rendering of the Greek?

Now if you want to make this say, Not a drunkard (but some wine is ok), then you will have a really hard time with the same rendering for a deacon as meaning "not much of a drunkard. :laugh:

Therefore, our pastors can't be drunks but our deacon are only allowed to be drunk occassionally.

Gotta admit, that is funny!

 

[Brother Bob]

A drunk go to heaven and a person who lives by the rules go to Hell? What a testimony........

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[TCGreek]

Didn't Paul say Bishops/Pastors should not drink at all? (1 Tim 3:3) Am I missing something from what Paul said? Are our translations correct in their rendering of the Greek?

1. The Greek in 1 Tim 3:3 is me paroinon--"not drunkards"--didn't say they couldn't use wine.

Now if you want to make this say, Not a drunkard (but some wine is ok), then you will have a really hard time with the same rendering for a deacon as meaning "not much of a drunkard. :laugh:

Therefore, our pastors can't be drunks but our deacon are only allowed to be drunk occassionally.

Gotta admit, that is funny!

2. The Greek in 1 Tim 3:8 is me oinw pollw prosechontas--"not paying attention to much wine."

3. The Greek constructions are clearly not the same.

4. So, I encourage you to pick another battle from the Greek perspective. :thumbs:

 

[Dale-c]

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for

Amen!
Notice the part about calling good evil.
That is what you are doing. Calling something that is a blessing from God, somthng that Jesus did on this earth.