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Can The Case Be Made That Christ Died For All?

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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
So you do not believe parable of the sower represents four conditions of hearers of the gospel? What about not doing the will of God in Matthew 7:21-23? Or the gospel being hidden to the lost in 2 Corinthians 4:3-4?
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I am very well aware of the parable of the sower and what it represents. I am also aware of the other verses you reference. However, I don't see its relevance to your position.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I do not believe God says that he desires all individuals to be saved. I do not see that anywhere in Scripture. Not once. And no, definitely not in 2 Pet. 3:9.
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So you do not trust what 1Ti 2:3-4 says? Why not?

I am curious as to why you would say that? Do you think that God does not love His creation? Or does He just love some of it? If He only loves part of it how can you be sure that you are in that part since for the calvinist God has to give you faith. You could be wrong, remember He does not really love all of creation so what is to stop Him from just giving you a false faith?

Now for me I know that God really does love His creation because I trust He is being honest when He says that He desires all men to be saved.

As for 2Pe 3:9, if you read 2Pe 3:8-9 you will see that he is writing to believers. "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved," at least that is how I read those verses.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I am very well aware of the parable of the sower and what it represents. I am also aware of the other verses you reference. However, I don't see its relevance to your position.
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Of course you don't. It is real simple. You deny Christ paid for the sins of any of the lost. In any of the examples. I hold Christ paid for the sins for His and in so doing did die for all the lost too. The problem in the limited redemption view is no hearer of the gospel has any grounds to believe the gospel.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
So you do not trust what 1Ti 2:3-4 says? Why not?

I am curious as to why you would say that? Do you think that God does not love His creation? Or does He just love some of it? If He only loves part of it how can you be sure that you are in that part since for the calvinist God has to give you faith. You could be wrong, remember He does not really love all of creation so what is to stop Him from just giving you a false faith?

Now for me I know that God really does love His creation because I trust He is being honest when He says that He desires all men to be saved.

As for 2Pe 3:9, if you read 2Pe 3:8-9 you will see that he is writing to believers. "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved," at least that is how I read those verses.
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Let me ask you this. Do you think that God loves all people equally and unconditionally?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Of course you don't. It is real simple. You deny Christ paid for the sins of any of the lost. In any of the examples. I hold Christ paid for the sins for His and in so doing did die for all the lost too. The problem in the limited redemption view is no hearer of the gospel has any grounds to believe the gospel.
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And again, that is a problem only made up in your mind.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Of course you don't. It is real simple. You deny Christ paid for the sins of any of the lost. In any of the examples. I hold Christ paid for the sins for His and in so doing did die for all the lost too. The problem in the limited redemption view is no hearer of the gospel has any grounds to believe the gospel.
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In US legal terms this is called double jeopardy.
The accused is declared guiltless, but then is declared guilty despite being declared innocent for that crime earlier.
Where do we find this double jeopardy expressed in the Bible, because that is what you are expressing.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
It is very simple, if a hearer cannot know Christ paid for one's sins what grounds is there to believe? None.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I am very well aware of the parable of the sower and what it represents. I am also aware of the other verses you reference. However, I don't see its relevance to your position.
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How do you reconcile the Parable of the Prodigal Son with your theology? Did God make him leave and then waste his fortune? Did He then stir him up to return to his father? If so what was the point of those actions by God?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
In US legal terms this is called double jeopardy.
The accused is declared guiltless, but then is declared guilty despite being declared innocent for that crime earlier.
Where do we find this double jeopardy expressed in the Bible, because that is what you are expressing.
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Oh, so are you saying to reject gift of forgiveness causes double jeopardy?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
In US legal terms this is called double jeopardy.
The accused is declared guiltless, but then is declared guilty despite being declared innocent for that crime earlier.
Where do we find this double jeopardy expressed in the Bible, because that is what you are expressing.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I've been trying to get a straight answer on this over and over and over and never get one.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
How do you reconcile the Parable of the Prodigal Son with your theology? Did God make him leave and then waste his fortune? Did He then stir him up to return to his father? If so what was the point of those actions by God?
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Do you people know what a parable is?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Well since there isn't an obvious contradiction, no.
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So you see not contradiction between the bible and DoG.

Limited atonement, either God is responsible for billions in hell or man is. With your view it is God as He is the one that limits those that can be saved. It has nothing to do with their faith or lack of as He has pick out those that will be saved and dropped the rest into hell. With free will it is man that makes the choice of accept or reject the free gift of salvation so he is the one responsible for being in hell.

God say that whoever believes will be saved so once again man has to choose. You know hear the gospel believe the gospel God saves. By grace through faith. Your view says man has no choice in the matter, you just have to be lucky to be saved. It is all a big lottery. God saves you first then drops faith into you.
 
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