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Can the unsaved to good works?

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Dale-c

Active Member
I agree with that but I think God meant towards repentance.
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I am not sure what you are refering to here.

I am not bringing this up so that we should tell people they are in sin because they plow.

The point is that until they are saved, then they are hopelessly bound to sin, it is impossible for them to have good motives until then....sounds like we agree pretty close anyway on this one. :)
Nice for a change.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
I tried plowing the wicked. They didn't grow. I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I planted them too deep, maybe I planted them too close.
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I wonder if the plower had anything to do with it?

I wonder if God being infinite has anything to do with Him knowing who will believe or not? I mean if time has no meaning and when we believe is the same as when we were before the world began or the same as when we are received in Heaven then When God knows all things it is because He sees it happening. Now if this be true then before the foundation God sees us believe, He then predestinates us to be conformed to the Image of His Son, He sees us being justified and He sees us being Glorified, all at the same time, because all things to Him are not as man has time but to Him it is all at once. What do you think, this way God don't choose us to serve Him but sees who will serve Him and predestinates us then. That way it is man choosing his own destiny isn't it? Does God see the end the same as He sees the beginning and without the time issue that man has?
Could God being infinite see the end and work backward as the same as seeing the beginning and work forward. Is He not God and can do all things without he hinderance of "time". Is He a "timeless" God? Just a thought, peace
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
That way it is man choosing his own destiny isn't it?
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I view the doctrine of man choosing his own destiny as an affront against Almighty God. God is in control of all destinies. No man can trump the enternal plan of our Heavenly Father.
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
Yes, but you are looking at it 6000 years ago when God is looking at it now and sees we believe so He predestinates us to be conformed to His Son's image. He could even start with the end when we are received in Heaven for it is all the same to Him, He is looking at it all at once for He is "timeless".
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
So, are you saying that He sees, like an onlooker all times at once, but is helpless do do anything about it?
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
No, I am saying He saw me before the world began believe in Him and forgave me and predestinated me to be conformed to the image of His son. He is an all seeing God. He is Omnipotent. He has already saw the end. He saw me repent of my sins and believe before the world ever began and that is why He foreknows. He is timeless. He didn't make me repent or believe but He saw me do it.
 
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richard n koustas

New Member
This thread reminds me of something i heard an unsaved teen once say:

if you are doing good works to get into heaven, then you are not doing good works!
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
The tree that bringeth forth not good fruit is cut down. God is with us and always has been.

He just asked you to "believe". except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come. "Believe"!!!

God has already saw whether you did or not.
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
So, Bob, how can God gurantee what will happen in the future? How does he know what to do? Is God helpless? You say He knows, but does not have any power to change the outcome?
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
No, I am saying He saw me before the world began believe in Him and forgave me and predestinated me to be conformed to the image of His son.
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I thought he didn't predestinate people, just what would happen to people?
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
He does not predestinate people to be saved or hell but does after belief predestinate them to be conformed to the image of His son. That is the plan of Salvation.

God don't guarntee what will happen. He gives us a choice. It is just that He is infinite and what is happening now such as belief He knew before the world began because He was looking at the beginning, now and the end all at the same time. He now can still look at the beginning and He also can and does and knows the end. He is an all knowing God who is infinite or Omnipotent that He looks at all in a moment. He saw what each and everyone would do and if we believed then we were put in the plan of Salvation. He never predestined anyone to sin or not sin. He just looked at His whole creation from the beginning to the end and it all happened at once for Him. We have to wait on the future but God don't have to wait on anything.
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
He does not predestinate people to be saved or hell but does after belief predestinate them to be conformed to the image of His son.
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Um.,.. Bob that would be POSTdestination.
You don't get predestinated, AFTER the fact.

God don't guarntee what will happen.
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He doesn't?

He saw what each and everyone would do and if we believed then we were put in the plan of Salvation.
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Saw is a past tense word. When did he see?
If he had to see, then He hasn't always known. Right?
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
He saw, He sees and He Has seen.
In other words. All things were before Him then, now and in the future, speaking in human terms. In God's terms there is no time He is everywhere at once. The beginning, now and the end. So He is here to see us believe, He was before the world began to see us believe and He will be in the end and seen us believe in human terms but in God's term all at once. Don't you believe in an "all knowing God" that is everywhere at once? Predestinate according to time of man. He is "timeless". You and I have to look to the future, He does not, it is all before Him now.

God knows the results of our decisions, not through absolute prediction but rather because He can already observe those results
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
Don't you believe in an "all knowing God" that is everywhere at once?
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Oh, Absolutely. On this we agree.
See where we disagree is that you say God is passive in knowing what will happen. I say God is active.
You say God created the world and then watches what will happen, and sees what will happen.
I say God created the world and then caused to happen His divine will.

Do you believe there are certain areas where He DOES decree exactly what will happen to certain people?
 
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