Can the unsaved to good works?

[Brother Bob]

There is no "before" or "after" with God but it is everlasting to everlasting. "thou lovedest me before the foundation of the world" is after the manner of men and not after the way God sees things. Before the foundation of the world is now with God and now is now and the end is now for God sees from everlasting to everlasting. When He says He loves from from the foundation of the world He means now for all things are at once with Him. He willeth unbelief on no man and He willeth belief on no man but is His will that all men would come unto Him. The thing is He is looking at the whole picture and already knows if you believed and that is why He says He loved you from the foundation of the world for that is now to Him and He sees from everlasting to everlasting that you "believed" so all these other things in the plan of Salvation just falls in place like foreknew,predestinate,justified,Glorified because He is seeing you from all eternity as one who believes.

 

[pinoybaptist]

"1": There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, (unsaved right then)

"2": A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.

"3": He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

"4": And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Bob:

How do you know the centurion was "unsaved" then ? Does the Scripture say that anywhere about him ?
If it does, is there anything in the Scriptures that says when he was "saved" ?

 

[Brother Bob]

Because Peter said later seeing now He has received the Holy Ghost what hindereth him from being baptized.
As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

 

[Dale-c]

This is just speculation, but what do you think happened to Adam?

As in was he actually saved?

I need to look into that.

 

[Dale-c]

There is no "before" or "after" with God but it is everlasting to everlasting

Yes, I agree. But again I say God is ACTIVE in the affairs of men, you say He is passive.

We both agree that He knows all things.
We do not agree that He controls all things.

 

[saturneptune]

Yes, as in saved, regenerated, with God, and I know there is nothing much said of him after the Garden. Dale, there is an extra Biblical book called Jasher that has some history on him. I have not read it, but have heard it talked about. He lived 900 years, so there was a lot of the Old Testement characters that he knew.

 

[saturneptune]

In a way, I feel sorry for Adam, as he is used thoughout Pauls writings as the personification of the old nature, as Christ is the new nature.

 

[Brother Bob]

If you don't believe that a man has the ability to believe then we will never agree.
I notice you have gotten away from the predestinated part.

 

[Brother Bob]

If man cannot believe or choose good or evil then he is no more than a rock and can't receive a reward or punishment whether he chooses God or the devil. Adam was held responsible for choosing to disobey God but now man has been turned into a rock or tree stump according to your belief and can't be held responsible.

Man can't be saved by works (works of the Law) but to say believing and choosing is works when even Satan believed and chose to do evil.

 

[Dale-c]

I notice you have gotten away from the predestinated part.

I am not sure what you mean.

If man cannot believe or choose good or evil then he is no more than a rock and can't receive a reward or punishment whether he chooses God or the devil. Adam was held responsible for choosing to disobey God but now man has been turned into a rock or tree stump according to your belief and can't be held responsible.

The only answer to this is: what does the Bible say?

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Romans 3:10)

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(Romans 7:18)

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
(Romans 3:11)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Romans 3:10)

It is not a matter of being lifeless rocks as people who hate the doctrines of grace so readily say.

Man has no understanding of God in his natural state

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(I Corinthians 2:14)


Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(John 14:6)

 

[Dale-c]

BTW...do you believe it would have been wrong for God to choose some to salvation and not others? Would what I and many others believe make God to be wrong? Or unjust?

 

[Brother Bob]

I think it goes against Scripture where He is no respect of persons. To be honest, to me it would be like God saying I think I will take that ones child or lets have his wife run over a mountain. No disrespect meant at all but it goes against the way I see God being an "all loving God".

 

[psalms109:31]

men

We see all around us people doing good for other people and being pegans.

So yes they can do good works.

No one seeks after good and doing good for our own satisfying is not good at all.

People search the scripture trying to find life, but all scripture points to Jesus.

Jesus is life.

His words our Spirit and life.

So the words of Jesus can breath life into men to give them the choice to believe or not to believe and the consequences for thier choice.

God has placed before us life and death, so chose life so you may live.

I still believe in an old baptist doctrine, that only at the cross that God has given men the choice to believe or not.

No one seeks after God, so God sends us out.

Since the one's who God invited didn't want to come, He has sent the invitation to everyone and anyone who doesn't put on Christ will be thrown out.

 

[Brother Bob]

I will amen that Psalms109; I too am still and old time Baptist.

 

[Dale-c]

I think it goes against Scripture where He is no respect of persons.

No, it is you that makes God to be a respecter of persons.
You say God only chooses the ones that first choose Him.
That is giving greater respect for those that choose Him than the ones that don't.

My belief is that God is absolutely NO respecter of persons.

To be honest, to me it would be like God saying I think I will take that ones child or lets have his wife run over a mountain.

Ok, we are all sinners right? So again I ask you, if God did choose to save some and left others in their sin, would that be unjust and wrong of God?
PLease answer. Hint: Paul already did...read Romans 9.

 

[Dale-c]

I still believe in an old baptist doctrine,

I too am still and old time Baptist.

Not really, most Baptists of more than 100-150 years ago would claim to be Calvinists.
But that is beside the point.

What does the Bible say? Even the righteousness, which may seem good to other men that we do is nothing but filthy rags in God's eyes.

 

[psalms109:31]

Respector of Person

God is no respector of person, so the same hope i have, He has given to everyone.

Praise be to God.

The harvast is plenty, but the workers are few.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Anybody can do some sort of good, but Salvation is in Christ alone. All our good works are filthy rags as we know in the sight of God, but those prepared beforehand in Christ for Christians to do are good, pleasing and acceptable to Him.

Pure Scripture.

David

 

[Blammo]

Not really, most Baptists of more than 100-150 years ago would claim to be Calvinists.

I think you have something backward here......

Oh, yes, I see it. It should read:

Most Calvinists claim to be Baptists.

 

[David Michael Harris]

BTW...do you believe it would have been wrong for God to choose some to salvation and not others? Would what I and many others believe make God to be wrong? Or unjust?

People are lost because of sin and failure to accept the Savior, thats why the Gospel and obedience to God is so so so so important.

Salvation is by Grace and that by hearing the Gospel.

Preach the Gospel. Pure and unadulterated!

David