Can the unsaved to good works?

Bob,

Is it correct to state that you believe that God saved you because of what you did by believing? Did you believe in Christ all of your own accord?

John 6:36-40

Bob,

Your righteousness did not save you. It was God who saved you. You have no righteousness in you except for that which has been imputed into you by Christ.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I can tell you why I chose and without hesitation. I did not want to die and go to Hell. The Scripture says "time and chance has happened unto all me". That didn't leave out Gandhi either. I doubt he was any worse than Jesabelle.

 

We are getting close to the same page. Now, let me tell you why I believed and Gandhi didn't: It was because of the grace of God through and through. There was nothing within me to lead me to Christ without the grace of God. There was no righteousness in me without the imputed righteousness of Christ. There was no intellect within me that led me to Christ until God opened my mind to the truth. It was not in any way me that sought after God, but it was God who sought after me.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Were you any better than Gandhi or were all things equal? Why did you not want to go to Hell and Gandhi did want to go to hell?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Again, I never said not have I ever said that my righteous saved me. But it was commanded by God that I believe and I still was not saved but it took the Grace of God to save me

One thing maybe I am leaving out. There is a Spirit in man the inspiration of God almighty that giveth him understanding. I think God's Spirit Strives with man to repent. God knew that the devil was going to strive with man to follow him and He also strives with man to believe in Him.

Salvation is of the Lord but you must "believe".

 

The same reason Jesabele did, he loved darkness rather than light. Now maybe he was like me and said within himself before I die I will turn unto the Lord but death overtook him, I don't know. I used to say that so something was teaching me all along that I was a sinner, the same as it teaches every man.

If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me so no need to quote the one about the Father drawing them.

Why, can you give an answer did Jesus and the Scriptures say "you must believe to be saved". Can you give me an answer that I can accept.

Go easy on me too for tomorrow is my Birthday and I will be 67 years old. So, I need a nap. I catch up in about 2 hours.:sleeping_2:

 

So you believe that the drawing of the Holy Spirit is of no effect and can be reject by sinful man? How does this square with the scripture I quoted in John 6? Either God is sovereign or we are. Either God is sovereign or else he is not holy because there is no guarantee that he can keep all his promises. Either God is holy and sovereign or else he is not God at all.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Bob,

Why did Gandhi love darkness and you loved the light? Are you saying that you loved God before you were saved? Sounds like you weren't all that bad. I wonder if God would agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Happy Birthday, Bob. I pray the Lord will give you a blessed time of fellowship with friends and family on that special day.

Joseph Botwinick:thumbs: :wavey:

 

God is Sovereign in that in His Sovereignity He gave man a choice. So which ever way I choose I still am doing what God let me do.

How does it square with John: 6?
If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

Here is John 6:
And it is saying exactly what I been saying all along. Why do you take the first line and leave the rest off?

40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Thank you Joseph, peace

 

There was nothing within you to lead you to Christ. That is why we have preachers. None seek after God. That's why God sends preachers.

Romans 10:13-17 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

I agree. It was the grace of God that I was born where I was and that I had the kind of Christian influence that I did. Otherwise, I might have followed my own sinful free will straight to Hell. But for the grace of God go I.

Joseph Botwinick

 

This is correct. God allowed Gandhi to follow his free will straight to Hell, but he changed my will through his grace and drew me to him. I would not have, otherwise, come to him.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Who said Ghandi wanted to go to hell? He thought what he was doing was going to get him to Heaven, because the "god of this world", the "father of lies" deceived him.

 

Salvation is based on demographics?

 

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

He that is not of God heareth not his words = Somewhere in John chapter eight.

 

Please don't put words in my mouth Joseph. Having a love for God and having the Love of God in you are two different things. No man can love two masters and I certainly didn't love the devil when I was in trouble over my sins but it was when I was born again that He removed the heart of stone and give me a heart of flesh, and put the "love of God in me".

Again, this is Jesus's words, "except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come".
How can you say that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do?
Beleiving is not Salvation but is required before you ever get Salvation.
Are you telling me you didn't believe in God when you first became a Christian? Please answer that one question. I would like to know someone who became a Christian and said they loved the devil at the time they were saved. Did you love the devil at the time God saved you?

 

I quote you a commandment of God and what God said I had to do to be saved and you asked me if I did it.

 

Here are some more words from Jesus:

Matthew 5:48

Are you there yet? Do you know anyone who has ever attained that kind of perfection in this life? If no, then are you telling me that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do? With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. And yet, we struggle with sin all our lives as we mortify the flesh (sanctification) until God glorifies us when we go home to be with him (glorification). Please see Romans 7:14-25, 8:13, and 8:28-30.

Before God saved me, I followed my master, which was the devil. It was when God saved me that I was given a new mind and made a new creation. Whether you want to admit it or not, you were the same way.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Inwardly yes, for that which is born of God cannot sin. It is the flesh that sins.

That is not what I asked you and you know it Joseph. We all loved the ways of the world. I am talking when you were in trouble over your sins did you love the devil at that time right before God saved you?
Let me word it another way. Did you get like the prodical son and began to think about home before you got there, or were you busy with wild women and drinking parties and all the sins of Satan and God just reached in pulled you out and saved you?