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Can the unsaved to good works?
- Thread starter Dale-c
- Start date
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:
So it is a works salvation, right?
Only those who are righteous enough in and of themselves can recieve God's grace according to you.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
If you call believing works the yes it is. I think you need to study and see there are at least 2 different kind of works. There is the works of "believing" which is a commandment to receive Salvation.
There is the works spoken of in Eph:1 which says "not of works lest any man should boast" that is talking about the works of the Law Covenant.
Please read the whole chapter.
Who did God say would receive it? Those that believe or those who refuse to believe?
So the Lord said "of these stones is God able to raise up children unto Abraham".
If what you say is true then a rock has just as much chance going to Heaven as men.
There is the works spoken of in Eph:1 which says "not of works lest any man should boast" that is talking about the works of the Law Covenant.
Please read the whole chapter.
Who did God say would receive it? Those that believe or those who refuse to believe?
So the Lord said "of these stones is God able to raise up children unto Abraham".
If what you say is true then a rock has just as much chance going to Heaven as men.
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Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Blammo said:
So the same amount of unmerited favor that was offered to me was also given to Gandhi...but it was only effective for me. Why? Why did I choose Christ and Gandhi didn't? Is it because I was smarter than him? Was it because I was more righteous than him? Was it because I was born in America and he was born in India? Was it because I was raised around positive Christian examples and he wasn't? Let me make it simple. Gandhi and I were both totally depraved sinners who had no hope for being saved without the grace of God. It was God who sought me, not I who sought him. It was God who allowed me to be born in a Christian nation to Christian parents and raised in a Christian church. That was not my choice, it was God's choice. It was God and his righteousness who saved me, not me and my righteousness. There is no righteousness as God counts righteousness in totally depraved lost humanity. There is nothing we can do to please God without the grace of God working in our lives. It is God who recieves all the glory for my salvation, not me.
Sola Deo Gloria,
Joseph Botwinick
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Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:
Those whom God sovereignly chose to show his grace to.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
Why did Adam choose to disobey God instead of obeying Him?
Tell you what, I will tell you. He was made subject to vanity, not willingly but by reason of Him who subjected the same in Hope.
In other words gave Him a choice.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Blammo said:
Ok. Replace the word offered in place of the word given and answer the question.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
Scripture?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Joseph_Botwinick said:
I changed the word to offereed. Now answer the question.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Blammo said:
You are correct on both assumptions. Now tell me why both of us who were dead in our sins and hostile to God chose differently. Why did I choose Christ and Ganghi didn't? Was it because I was more righteous than him? If that were true, then I have at least a little something to boast about. If that were true, then I certainly did not need as much grace as Gandhi did since I wasn't as bad as he was.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
What is it that you all don't understand about the difference between a rock and a man? One can't think, the other one can. Can't you understand that or what?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:
I totally understand that. It, however, has nothing to do with this conversation that I can see. Just because a human can think, that does not give him the ability to please God or save himself through his works or his own righteous choice. There is no righteousness in lost mankind unless God saves him.
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
I don't think anyone on here has said a man can save himself.
Just because you believe does not save you nor will it, but it is doing what God commanded you to do then He saves you with a free gift. God so loved the that He Gave His only begotten Son that Whosoever will believe on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.
You are getting the cart before the horse. peace
Thinking sure had a lot to do with me turning to God. I didn't want to die and go down to a devil's hell.
Also, I don't think there is any difference that I know of between me and Blammo's belief on being saved.
Just because you believe does not save you nor will it, but it is doing what God commanded you to do then He saves you with a free gift. God so loved the that He Gave His only begotten Son that Whosoever will believe on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.
You are getting the cart before the horse. peace
Thinking sure had a lot to do with me turning to God. I didn't want to die and go down to a devil's hell.
Also, I don't think there is any difference that I know of between me and Blammo's belief on being saved.
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Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:
Bob,
I believe you have it backwards. I don't believe that God saves you because of anything you have done. God saves us despite of what we have done and who we are: Totally depraved sinners who are at emnity with God. It is the grace of God who revives us from being spiritually dead and changes us from being hostile to God to being one who seeks and longs for God. It is not something we can seek on our own. It is only through God's grace that we can believe on him.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Brother Bob said:
Why is it that you didn't want to go to a devil's hell and Gandhi did? Were you just smarter and more righteous than him?
Joseph Botwinick
Brother Bob
New Member
Explain this Scripture then for me, ok?
Acts, chapter 16
"30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and departing from evil is understanding.
I think those who don't choose the Lord are stupid is about as plain as I can put it. I think I was stupid when I gambled with my life living wildly. I think God that I began to get afraid of dying and going to a devils hell. I could of continued on in darkness but I didn't want to. I had a mind of my own and God put before me if I continued on the way I was going I was going to hell and if I repented and believed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I could escape hell and be saved.
So as Mary of old, I chose the good part that shall never be taken away. The Bible is so full of Scriptures that you all just can't explain away. Oh, you give and answer but it don't make sense t me. sry
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Joseph_Botwinick said:
I cannot tell you why you chose to believe. I cannot tell you why Gandhi chose not to believe. You were both lost sinners on your way to hell. You certainly were not righteoous when you heard the word of God and believed it. Maybe you realized you were not righteous, and that's why you put your faith in Christ. That's why I believed. I realized I was not righteous nor could I be. Do you think Gandhi ever realized he was not good? I don't think he ever realized that. Maybe that's why he chose his own righteousness?
I can tell you why I chose to believe.