Can the unsaved to good works?

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Explain this Scripture then for me, ok?

Acts, chapter 16
"30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Bob,

Is it correct to state that you believe that God saved you because of what you did by believing? Did you believe in Christ all of your own accord?

36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:36-40

Bob,

Your righteousness did not save you. It was God who saved you. You have no righteousness in you except for that which has been imputed into you by Christ.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

I can tell you why I chose and without hesitation. I did not want to die and go to Hell. The Scripture says "time and chance has happened unto all me". That didn't leave out Gandhi either. I doubt he was any worse than Jesabelle.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I cannot tell you why you chose to believe. I cannot tell you why Gandhi chose not to believe. You were both lost sinners on your way to hell. You certainly were not righteoous when you heard the word of God and believed it. Maybe you realized you were not righteous, and that's why you put your faith in Christ. That's why I believed. I realized I was not righteous nor could I be. Do you think Gandhi ever realized he was not good? I don't think he ever realized that. Maybe that's why he chose his own righteousness?

I can tell you why I chose to believe.

We are getting close to the same page. Now, let me tell you why I believed and Gandhi didn't: It was because of the grace of God through and through. There was nothing within me to lead me to Christ without the grace of God. There was no righteousness in me without the imputed righteousness of Christ. There was no intellect within me that led me to Christ until God opened my mind to the truth. It was not in any way me that sought after God, but it was God who sought after me.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I can tell you why I chose and without hesitation. I did not want to die and go to Hell. The Scripture says "time and chance has happened unto all me". That didn't leave out Gandhi either. I doubt he was any worse than Jesabelle.

Were you any better than Gandhi or were all things equal? Why did you not want to go to Hell and Gandhi did want to go to hell?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

Is it correct to state that you believe that God saved you because of what you did by believing? Did you believe in Christ all of your own accord?

Again, I never said not have I ever said that my righteous saved me. But it was commanded by God that I believe and I still was not saved but it took the Grace of God to save me

One thing maybe I am leaving out. There is a Spirit in man the inspiration of God almighty that giveth him understanding. I think God's Spirit Strives with man to repent. God knew that the devil was going to strive with man to follow him and He also strives with man to believe in Him.

Salvation is of the Lord but you must "believe".

 

[Brother Bob]

Were you any better than Gandhi or were all things equal? Why did you not want to go to Hell and Gandhi did want to go to hell?

The same reason Jesabele did, he loved darkness rather than light. Now maybe he was like me and said within himself before I die I will turn unto the Lord but death overtook him, I don't know. I used to say that so something was teaching me all along that I was a sinner, the same as it teaches every man.

If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me so no need to quote the one about the Father drawing them.

Why, can you give an answer did Jesus and the Scriptures say "you must believe to be saved". Can you give me an answer that I can accept.

Go easy on me too for tomorrow is my Birthday and I will be 67 years old. So, I need a nap. I catch up in about 2 hours.:sleeping_2:

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Again, I never said not have I ever said that my righteous saved me. But it was commanded by God that I believe and I still was not saved but it took the Grace of God to save me

One thing maybe I am leaving out. There is a Spirit in man the inspiration of God almighty that giveth him understanding. I think God's Spirit Strives with man to repent. God knew that the devil was going to strive with man to follow him and He also strives with man to believe in Him.

Salvation is of the Lord but you must "believe".

So you believe that the drawing of the Holy Spirit is of no effect and can be reject by sinful man? How does this square with the scripture I quoted in John 6? Either God is sovereign or we are. Either God is sovereign or else he is not holy because there is no guarantee that he can keep all his promises. Either God is holy and sovereign or else he is not God at all.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

The same reason Jesabele did, he loved darkness rather than light. Now maybe he was like me and said within himself before I die I will turn unto the Lord but death overtook him, I don't know. I used to say that so something was teaching me all along that I was a sinner, the same as it teaches every man.

Bob,

Why did Gandhi love darkness and you loved the light? Are you saying that you loved God before you were saved? Sounds like you weren't all that bad. I wonder if God would agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Go easy on me too for tomorrow is my Birthday and I will be 67 years old. So, I need a nap. I catch up in about 2 hours.:sleeping_2:

Happy Birthday, Bob. I pray the Lord will give you a blessed time of fellowship with friends and family on that special day.

Joseph Botwinick:thumbs: :wavey:

 

[Brother Bob]

God is Sovereign in that in His Sovereignity He gave man a choice. So which ever way I choose I still am doing what God let me do.

How does it square with John: 6?
If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.

Here is John 6:
And it is saying exactly what I been saying all along. Why do you take the first line and leave the rest off?

40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Thank you Joseph, peace

 

[Blammo]

We are getting close to the same page. Now, let me tell you why I believed and Gandhi didn't: It was because of the grace of God through and through. There was nothing within me to lead me to Christ without the grace of God. There was no righteousness in me without the imputed righteousness of Christ. There was no intellect within me that led me to Christ until God opened my mind to the truth. It was not in any way me that sought after God, but it was God who sought after me.

Joseph Botwinick

There was nothing within you to lead you to Christ. That is why we have preachers. None seek after God. That's why God sends preachers.

Romans 10:13-17 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

There was nothing within you to lead you to Christ. That is why we have preachers. None seek after God. That's why God sends preachers.

Romans 10:13-17 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I agree. It was the grace of God that I was born where I was and that I had the kind of Christian influence that I did. Otherwise, I might have followed my own sinful free will straight to Hell. But for the grace of God go I.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

God is Sovereign in that in His Sovereignity He gave man a choice. So which ever way I choose I still am doing what God let me do.

This is correct. God allowed Gandhi to follow his free will straight to Hell, but he changed my will through his grace and drew me to him. I would not have, otherwise, come to him.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[webdog]

Were you any better than Gandhi or were all things equal? Why did you not want to go to Hell and Gandhi did want to go to hell?

Joseph Botwinick

Who said Ghandi wanted to go to hell? He thought what he was doing was going to get him to Heaven, because the "god of this world", the "father of lies" deceived him.

 

[webdog]

I agree. It was the grace of God that I was born where I was and that I had the kind of Christian influence that I did.

Salvation is based on demographics?

 

[gristmill]

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

He that is not of God heareth not his words = Somewhere in John chapter eight.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

Why did Gandhi love darkness and you loved the light? Are you saying that you loved God before you were saved? Sounds like you weren't all that bad. I wonder if God would agree

Please don't put words in my mouth Joseph. Having a love for God and having the Love of God in you are two different things. No man can love two masters and I certainly didn't love the devil when I was in trouble over my sins but it was when I was born again that He removed the heart of stone and give me a heart of flesh, and put the "love of God in me".

Again, this is Jesus's words, "except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come".
How can you say that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do?
Beleiving is not Salvation but is required before you ever get Salvation.
Are you telling me you didn't believe in God when you first became a Christian? Please answer that one question. I would like to know someone who became a Christian and said they loved the devil at the time they were saved. Did you love the devil at the time God saved you?

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Explain this Scripture then for me, ok?

Acts, chapter 16
"30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Bob,

Is it correct to state that you believe that God saved you because of what you did by believing? Did you believe in Christ all of your own accord?

I quote you a commandment of God and what God said I had to do to be saved and you asked me if I did it.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Again, this is Jesus's words, "except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come".
How can you say that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do?

Here are some more words from Jesus:

48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:48

Are you there yet? Do you know anyone who has ever attained that kind of perfection in this life? If no, then are you telling me that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do? With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. And yet, we struggle with sin all our lives as we mortify the flesh (sanctification) until God glorifies us when we go home to be with him (glorification). Please see Romans 7:14-25, 8:13, and 8:28-30.

Beleiving is not Salvation but is required before you ever get Salvation.
Are you telling me you didn't believe in God when you first became a Christian? Please answer that one question. I would like to know someone who became a Christian and said they loved the devil at the time they were saved. Did you love the devil at the time God saved you?

Before God saved me, I followed my master, which was the devil. It was when God saved me that I was given a new mind and made a new creation. Whether you want to admit it or not, you were the same way.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:48

Are you there yet? Do you know anyone who has ever attained that kind of perfection in this life? If no, then are you telling me that we cannot do what Jesus commanded us to do? With man, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. And yet, we struggle with sin all our lives as we mortify the flesh (sanctification) until God glorifies us when we go home to be with him (glorification). Please see Romans 7:14-25, 8:13, and 8:28-30.

Inwardly yes, for that which is born of God cannot sin. It is the flesh that sins.

Before God saved me, I followed my master, which was the devil. It was when God saved me that I was given a new mind and made a new creation. Whether you want to admit it or not, you were the same way.

That is not what I asked you and you know it Joseph. We all loved the ways of the world. I am talking when you were in trouble over your sins did you love the devil at that time right before God saved you?
Let me word it another way. Did you get like the prodical son and began to think about home before you got there, or were you busy with wild women and drinking parties and all the sins of Satan and God just reached in pulled you out and saved you?