Charismatic Errors Listed

[John of Japan]

Chasmatics err in that they see physical healing provided for in the atonement, that God still grants gift to heal today, and that it is His will that all be healed, if not, due to lack of faith/understanding/devil took it away etc!

I agree. And this false doctrine is pervasive and deadly. I just listened last night to Charismatic leader Bill Johnson on Youtube saying that anyone who says Paul's "thorn in the flesh" is a sickness is preaching a false gospel! How arrogant and wrong!

 

[awaken]

I agree. And this false doctrine is pervasive and deadly. I just listened last night to Charismatic leader Bill Johnson on Youtube saying that anyone who says Paul's "thorn in the flesh" is a sickness is preaching a false gospel! How arrogant and wrong!

Pauls thorn in the flesh was not sickness.

 

[awaken]

No, God only heals in one way, with His power. Anointing with oil and laying on of hands are symbolic.

But isn't that power within us? Greater is he that is in us..than he that is in the world. Isn't it the HS within us that is manifesting through us..it is not our power..we are just obeying what Jesus says to do. If he told us to lay hands on the sick..then that is what we should do. That does not mean we are doing the healing..no more than we are the ones that save them when we share the gospel. IT IS ALL BY THE POWER OF GOD...

Laying on of hands is a symbol for blessing someone, just as happened many times in the Bible. When I was ordained as a preacher, they laid hands on me just as with Timothy (1 Tim. 4:14). Just so, when Christ spit on the man's eyes to heal him, that was not something we are to imitate. Christ was teaching the man. The anointing with oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. It is not what heals. The power of God is what heals.

I have never said anything else..it is always His power being manifested. We can do nothing on our own for His kingdom.

We are never commanded to do anything in healing other than anointing with oil in James 5. We are not told to hit them on the forehead like Ernest Angley.

Did I say hit someone on the head? He does tell us to lay hands on the sick and they will recover. I do not have to understand everything..I am just to obey!

 

[awaken]

These statements infer that you believe in faith healers.

I believe in THE HEALER, and I have made it plain in everyone one of my post! The difference in us DHK is that I do not limit God or put him in a box of my own theories because I can not wrap my brain around what he is doing. It does not make sense to me why he spit in mud and put it on a man's eye to heal him..but I believe the word!

The one place in Scripture that "manifestation of the Spirit" is used in 1Cor.12:7 and you use that one verse and build an entire doctrine around it. You can't even define the word properly. In context the word refers to the Holy Spirit revealing himself during that time period through the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit through the local church, and only the local church as the context is very explicit in detailing that.

No, you are the one that has trouble with "manifestation of the Spirit"...it is in the Bible and it is plain the way he manifest through man. It is not man that heals no more than man can save! We are just a tool in the hands of God to use as He sees fit!

Thus to say that, "God still using man to bring glory through manifesting the Holy Spirit, and one of those manifestations is healing," is to infer that the gift of healing is still operative. But no one today has the gift of healing. No one today can heal as Peter did in Acts 5:16. That gift has ceased. If it hasn't show me someone who has it. Show me someone who can go outside of his own environment, like into the ER of a given hospital and heal all that are there. They can't do it. Peter could heal ALL that came to him--no excuses.

If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do. Can you show me where it says to heal everyone in the hospital? No! Even Jesus did not heal everyone. He could heal no one in his hometown...do you remember why he could not heal in his hometown?

 

[John of Japan]

Pauls thorn in the flesh was not sickness.

Yes it was. I'm going to start a new thread on this.

 

[John of Japan]

Did I say hit someone on the head? He does tell us to lay hands on the sick and they will recover. I do not have to understand everything..I am just to obey!

No, but you did defend Ernest Angley's ridiculous, meaningless practice.

 

[DHK]

If the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do. Can you show me where it says to heal everyone in the hospital? No! Even Jesus did not heal everyone. He could heal no one in his hometown...do you remember why he could not heal in his hometown?

There were no hospitals in the NT age. Relatives brought their sick to the ones who thought they could heal them. Luke was a physician. They would come to him.

In Acts 5:16, they brought their relatives to Peter.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Peter, without the aid of MRI's X-rays, referrals to specialists, prescription medications, etc., healed every one of them. They were all healed, thousands of them, no matter what the ailment was--broken bones, TB, MS, blindness, epilepsy, etc. All were healed.

Nowadays, they don't bring seriously ill people to even a doctor. They take them to the ER, at the hospital. But a "faith healer" won't go there. He already knows he can't heal broken bones, people in car accidents, etc.

No one came to heal my friend in a car accident: 8 broken ribs, rotator cuff pulled out of place and broken, all the ligaments in that area were ripped, two discs out of place. No faith healer volunteered to help him. Why? They can't.
He will heal. God uses medicine, technology, and has given wisdom to doctors today to help heal. But it will be a slow process.
Peter healed instantaneously. Today's "faith healers" can't do that.
You live in your own dream world where you assert something to be true but have no evidence to back it up.

 

[plain_n_simple]

You live in your own dream world where you assert something to be true but have no evidence to back it up.

sounds like faith

 

[DHK]

You live in your own dream world where you assert something to be true but have no evidence to back it up.

sounds like faith

It is faith. It takes faith to believe in the elephant god of Ganesh, as the Hindus do. Is that also what you believe?

 

[plain_n_simple]

It is faith. It takes faith to believe in the elephant god of Ganesh, as the Hindus do. Is that also what you believe?

Do you have proof that Lazarus was raised from the dead?

You might not even really believe it though.

 

[awaken]

No, but you did defend Ernest Angley's ridiculous, meaningless practice.

I do not even know who Ernest Angley is??

 

[awaken]

There were no hospitals in the NT age. Relatives brought their sick to the ones who thought they could heal them. Luke was a physician. They would come to him.

In Acts 5:16, they brought their relatives to Peter.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Peter, without the aid of MRI's X-rays, referrals to specialists, prescription medications, etc., healed every one of them. They were all healed, thousands of them, no matter what the ailment was--broken bones, TB, MS, blindness, epilepsy, etc. All were healed.

Nowadays, they don't bring seriously ill people to even a doctor. They take them to the ER, at the hospital. But a "faith healer" won't go there. He already knows he can't heal broken bones, people in car accidents, etc.

No one came to heal my friend in a car accident: 8 broken ribs, rotator cuff pulled out of place and broken, all the ligaments in that area were ripped, two discs out of place. No faith healer volunteered to help him. Why? They can't.
He will heal. God uses medicine, technology, and has given wisdom to doctors today to help heal. But it will be a slow process.
Peter healed instantaneously. Today's "faith healers" can't do that.
You live in your own dream world where you assert something to be true but have no evidence to back it up.

Jesus did not heal everyone in his lifetime..He only did what His Father told him to do. I will agree that all that came to Jesus in faith was healed! But He did not heal everyone.
In James we are to go to the elders...it does not tell the elders to come to us.
Again... Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

 

[John of Japan]

I do not even know who Ernest Angley is??

Then why did you defend his practice of smacking people on the forehead when he "heals" them?

 

[awaken]

Then why did you defend his practice of smacking people on the forehead when he "heals" them?

Which post did I defend him? If it is the one that I directed it back to what Jesus did...then how is that defended it! I made an observation! Jesus healed in a weird way...spitting on mud and applying it to blind eyes was different!

 

[DHK]

Jesus did not heal everyone in his lifetime..He only did what His Father told him to do. I will agree that all that came to Jesus in faith was healed! But He did not heal everyone.

Poor choice of words. Jesus COULD heal everyone that came to him, and if my memory serves me correctly he never turned any away.
You are taking Scripture out of context.
The verse that you are referring to indicates that Jesus would do no more miracles in the city of Capernaum because of their unbelief. Miracles don't save. They had heard the Word of God. It had been verified by signs and wonders. Still they would not believe. He was doing exactly what he said he would do--not throw his pearls before swine. They would remain in their unbelief. Thus he would go elsewhere. The power of Jesus remained unabated.
Look how you torture the Scripture and take it out of context. All who came to Jesus were healed.

Were all saved?
Ten lepers came to Jesus. Of the ten, nine were Jews and one was a Samaritan. Jesus healed all ten and then told them to go and show themselves to the priests. Only one of the ten returned to give thanks, and praised God. Jesus answered and said: "Were there not ten that were cleansed? Where are the other nine?" The narrative notes that the one that returned was a stranger (non-Jew), later identifying him as a Samaritan. Then Jesus says "Thy faith has made thee whole. The others had received physical healing but not spiritual healing. The only one of the bunch that received spiritual healing or was saved was the Samaritan.
Jesus did not turn any away.

In James we are to go to the elders...it does not tell the elders to come to us.

That is for today. And that is right. Thus the era of those having the gift of healing is past. No one has the gift of healing where thousands can come to him with hope of being healed. It doesn't happen.

Again... Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies,

The lepers came to him. I just gave you that story. All who came to him were healed--ALL, ALL, and ALL again. ALL were healed.

we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

Find me a hospital in the NT and I will find you Jesus and the apostles emptying it out.

Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.
34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

Mark 1:45 But he went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter.

Mark 3:9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

 

[awaken]

Poor choice of words. Jesus COULD heal everyone that came to him, and if my memory serves me correctly he never turned any away.

Read my post and quit just looking for the wrong in them..then maybe you will not make comments like this! I am the one that says his will is to heal! I never said Jesus could not heal...but it did say he could not heal in his hometown! WHY?? UNBELIEF!! He never turned away any that CAME TO HIM!

You are taking Scripture out of context.
The verse that you are referring to indicates that Jesus would do no more miracles in the city of Capernaum because of their unbelief. Miracles don't save. They had heard the Word of God. It had been verified by signs and wonders. Still they would not believe. He was doing exactly what he said he would do--not throw his pearls before swine. They would remain in their unbelief. Thus he would go elsewhere. The power of Jesus remained unabated.
Look how you torture the Scripture and take it out of context. All who came to Jesus were healed.

Jesus could heal no one because of their unbelief! That sounds familiar!

Were all saved?
Ten lepers came to Jesus. Of the ten, nine were Jews and one was a Samaritan. Jesus healed all ten and then told them to go and show themselves to the priests. Only one of the ten returned to give thanks, and praised God. Jesus answered and said: "Were there not ten that were cleansed? Where are the other nine?" The narrative notes that the one that returned was a stranger (non-Jew), later identifying him as a Samaritan. Then Jesus says "Thy faith has made thee whole. The others had received physical healing but not spiritual healing. The only one of the bunch that received spiritual healing or was saved was the Samaritan.
Jesus did not turn any away.

Who said that he did? You are reading into my post what I did not say!

That is for today. And that is right. Thus the era of those having the gift of healing is past. No one has the gift of healing where thousands can come to him with hope of being healed. It doesn't happen.

You keep believing that way!

The lepers came to him. I just gave you that story. All who came to him were healed--ALL, ALL, and ALL again. ALL were healed.

I have never denied that he healed ALL that came to him! Get your stuff straight before you insinuate something I said or not said!

Find me a hospital in the NT and I will find you Jesus and the apostles emptying it out.

THere were pleny of leper colonies back then...show me where they went TO THE COLONIES and cleared them out!

Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.
34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

Mark 1:45 But he went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter.

Mark 3:9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

They all came to him!!!

 

[DHK]

Read my post and quit just looking for the wrong in them..then maybe you will not make comments like this! I am the one that says his will is to heal! I never said Jesus could not heal...but it did say he could not heal in his hometown! WHY?? UNBELIEF!! He never turned away any that CAME TO HIM!
Jesus could heal no one because of their unbelief! That sounds familiar!

No it doesn't. He could heal. He could heal anyone he wanted. It doesn't say that he did not have the power to heal, as people today make excuses, and so cruelly blame the sick by saying that did not have the faith. Jesus could heal, but chose not to. Understand that! He COULD heal but CHOSE not to heal. There is a big difference.

Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

There are the facts.
Because of their unbelief he did "no mighty work," but he did heal some.
You are wrong in your assessment. Next time get the facts straight.

Who said that he did? You are reading into my post what I did not say!

If you want me to quote you I will. You said "not even Jesus healed everyone," which is not true.
Here are your exact words:

Jesus did not heal everyone in his lifetime..He only did what His Father told him to do. I will agree that all that came to Jesus in faith was healed! But He did not heal everyone.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone.
2. Jesus only healed those that came to him in faith--a big lie.
3. He did not heal every one.
--All three of these statements are wrong.

You keep believing that way!

I believe the evidence. Read Josh McDowell's book, "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." In apologetics, one needs evidence. You can't go spouting off that the grass is fluorescent orange when the evidence demonstrates that it is green.
You can't spout off that faith healers today heal thousands as Peter did in Acts 5:16 when the evidence is to the contrary.
You can't spout off that there are little green gods on the planet Pluto that eat green cheese when there is no evidence.
You can't claim that you speak in Biblical tongues--real foreign languages, with meaning, when you have no evidence.
You need evidence and you don't have any.

I have never denied that he healed ALL that came to him! Get your stuff straight before you insinuate something I said or not said!

In one quote you denied him thrice. Sound familiar?
Except you keep doing it.
I quoted you word for word. Read your own quote for yourself.

THere were pleny of leper colonies back then...show me where they went TO THE COLONIES and cleared them out!

That is not true:
"Leper colonies or houses became widespread in the Middle Ages, particularly in Europe and India, and often run by monastic orders." (Wikipedia)
Study your Bible.
The lepers were not aloud "inside the camp." They roamed "outside the camp," not where the general populace of the Israelites were. They had to call out: "Unclean, unclean," to let everyone know that they were there.

I explained to you the entire story of the Ten Lepers. Did you not read my post? Read it for yourself in Luke 17:11-19. The one that found salvation was a Samaritan.

Notice:

Luke 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
--They stood afar off. They couldn't mingle with the villagers.

They all came to him!!!

Often Jesus went to them. It was his mission.
"I am come to seek and to save that which is lost."
It worked both ways.

Jesus deliberately went through Samaria to minister to the needs of the Samaritan woman, for example.
He allowed himself to be touched by the woman who had an issue of blood.
He altered his course to heal a centurion's son.
He over and over again, accommodated himself in order to meet the needs of others, often putting his own needs last.

 

[awaken]

No it doesn't. He could heal. He could heal anyone he wanted. It doesn't say that he did not have the power to heal, as people today make excuses, and so cruelly blame the sick by saying that did not have the faith. Jesus could heal, but chose not to. Understand that! He COULD heal but CHOSE not to heal. There is a big difference.

I did not say he did not have power..stop adding to my post! I said he could not because of THEIR UNBELIEF! God does not heal, save or anything else without our faith!

Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

There are the facts.
Because of their unbelief he did "no mighty work," but he did heal some.
You are wrong in your assessment. Next time get the facts straight.

He did not heal all as you keep assuming!

If you want me to quote you I will. You said "not even Jesus healed everyone," which is not true.
Here are your exact words:

Jesus did not heal everyone in his lifetime..He only did what His Father told him to do. I will agree that all that came to Jesus in faith was healed! But He did not heal everyone.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone.
2. Jesus only healed those that came to him in faith--a big lie.
3. He did not heal every one.
--All three of these statements are wrong.

Did he heal the man that Peter and John healed? No, he was alive when Jesus walked the earth..why didn't he heal him?

I believe the evidence. Read Josh McDowell's book, "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." In apologetics, one needs evidence. You can't go spouting off that the grass is fluorescent orange when the evidence demonstrates that it is green.

THe Bible is my evidence!!!

You can't spout off that faith healers today heal thousands as Peter did in Acts 5:16 when the evidence is to the contrary.

Just because you do not witness someone getting healed does not mean it is not happening today! Why would you witness this? You go only to the places where they do not believe in this for today.

You can't spout off that there are little green gods on the planet Pluto that eat green cheese when there is no evidence.

You keep seeing green gods! I have never mentioned green gods!

You can't claim that you speak in Biblical tongues--real foreign languages, with meaning, when you have no evidence.
You need evidence and you don't have any.

I have the evidence! It is enough for me to believe! But like I said before! I believed the word...then I saw evidence! You will not see evidence unless you first believe!

In one quote you denied him thrice. Sound familiar?
Except you keep doing it.
I quoted you word for word. Read your own quote for yourself.

That is not true:
"Leper colonies or houses became widespread in the Middle Ages, particularly in Europe and India, and often run by monastic orders." (Wikipedia)
Study your Bible.
The lepers were not aloud "inside the camp." They roamed "outside the camp," not where the general populace of the Israelites were. They had to call out: "Unclean, unclean," to let everyone know that they were there.

I have no idea what your stand is on this matter..you have gone back and forth on so many issues I can not keep up with what you believe.

God did not heal everyone when he walked the earth! That included the leper colonies! He only healed the ones that came to him or the ones his Father drew him to. He only did what he saw his Father doing!

I explained to you the entire story of the Ten Lepers. Did you not read my post? Read it for yourself in Luke 17:11-19. The one that found salvation was a Samaritan.

Do you even know what the discussion was when you posted this?

Notice:

Luke 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
--They stood afar off. They couldn't mingle with the villagers.

Often Jesus went to them. It was his mission.
"I am come to seek and to save that which is lost."
It worked both ways.

But he did not heal everyone!

Jesus deliberately went through Samaria to minister to the needs of the Samaritan woman, for example.
He allowed himself to be touched by the woman who had an issue of blood.
He altered his course to heal a centurion's son.
He over and over again, accommodated himself in order to meet the needs of others, often putting his own needs last.

THe woman reached out to him..and what did he say...it was her faith that healed her.

 

[awaken]

So who on this board believes one can be healed without faith?
Healing Requires Faith!

 

[DHK]

So who on this board believes one can be healed without faith?
Healing Requires Faith!

That is a false doctrine.
Jesus healed multitudes. Very few of them had faith.
Jesus healed Ten Lepers. Only one of them had faith.
Peter healed thousands. Very few had faith.

It does not take faith on the part of the one needing to be healed; rather it takes faith on the part of the "healer," the pastor. "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick." Who prays the "prayer of faith," in James 5? The sick person or the elders of the church? Then whose responsibility is it to have faith?