Charismatic Errors Listed

[DHK]

Do you live to try and discredit people?

No, not at all.
When Charles Taze Russell stood in a Canadian Court on the charge of adultery, he was asked if he said that he claimed to be able to read the Greek language. Russell replied that he could. They placed a Greek NT in front of him, and he couldn't read a word. He was a fraud, and committing perjury.

If a person today claims that they can speak in Biblical tongues then let them demonstrate it. Give the facts. What language? When? Where? Who witnessed it? Where is the evidence? If there is no evidence then it is quite obvious that the entire thing is fraudulent. I call it like I see it. The Canadian court back in Russell's time were ready to kick him out of Canada.

If one claims to be a Christian they ought to be telling the truth about what they claim and be able to back up their claims. Should we not ask for anything less?

 

[awaken]

Then stop pretending you know my agenda and motives. It's very offensive.

No, you have never said what you think Christ taught about the manifestation of the Spirit.
I've never seen anyone on the BB wriggle around so much to avoid answering legitimate questions. I'll try once again.

What did Christ teach about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, in your opinion.

Jesus taught a lot about the Holy Spirit! He manifested himself and taught disciples how to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit...

MR 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean SPIRITs;

In Luke 10 starting in verse 17 he sent out 70 more disciples and gave them power over demons.

These are just a few...

God wrote the whole Bible didn't he? I told you that there were things that Jesus could not teach the disciples until the Holy Spirit came upon them. WHY?

 

[awaken]

No, not at all.
When Charles Taze Russell stood in a Canadian Court on the charge of adultery, he was asked if he said that he claimed to be able to read the Greek language. Russell replied that he could. They placed a Greek NT in front of him, and he couldn't read a word. He was a fraud, and committing perjury.

If a person today claims that they can speak in Biblical tongues then let them demonstrate it. Give the facts. What language? When? Where? Who witnessed it? Where is the evidence? If there is no evidence then it is quite obvious that the entire thing is fraudulent. I call it like I see it. The Canadian court back in Russell's time were ready to kick him out of Canada.

If one claims to be a Christian they ought to be telling the truth about what they claim and be able to back up their claims. Should we not ask for anything less?

The only Test I have to pass is the Word test..
It is in scriptures! Search the scriptures to see if it is so...
The warfare test..
Anytime the Holy Spirit is being manifested the person can be asked to confess if Jesus is Lord. If not then it is not of God..but demonic.
The works test...
The real test of the Spirit's work will be clearly displayed in a deeper love for Jesus, a new hunger for Scripture, a passion for lost souls, a thirst for righteousness, and a new love for others.

I have passed all these test!

Your test are to satisfy you...you are demanding a sign before you believe. NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY THE ONE SPEAKING IN TONGUES HAVE TO KNOW THE LANGUAGE THEY ARE SPEAKING. I HAVE SHOWN MULTIPLY TIMES THAT IT IS PLAIN THE ONE SPEAKING DOES NOT KNOW WHAT LANGUAGE OR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT NEED AN INTERPRETER. How much common sense does it take to understand this!

 

[DHK]

The only Test I have to pass is the Word test..
It is in scriptures! Search the scriptures to see if it is so...

So is the command to build a tabernacle and dwell in the wilderness. Have you done that too? You have no regard for the context of Scripture. You Did you climb Mt. Sinai like Moses did? That also was a command. You give no regard for context. The Bible says; I believe it--even if the Bible says "there is no God" (Psalm 14:1). You have no regard for context.

The warfare test..
Anytime the Holy Spirit is being manifested the person can be asked to confess if Jesus is Lord. If not then it is not of God..but demonic.

I will ask the Lord for you. He is demonic. There is your answer.
You don't know what you are saying. You could be praising Satan. You are simply running your life on your feelings.
Furthermore, give hard evidence that it is the Holy Spirit that it is actually being manifested and not an imitator. Satan is an imitator, the great deceiver. How do you know it is not Satan?

The works test...
The real test of the Spirit's work will be clearly displayed in a deeper love for Jesus, a new hunger for Scripture, a passion for lost souls, a thirst for righteousness, and a new love for others.

I have passed all these test!

Others said the same thing. Do you know what Jesus said?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Your test are to satisfy you

...you are demanding a sign before you believe. NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY THE ONE SPEAKING IN TONGUES HAVE TO KNOW THE LANGUAGE THEY ARE SPEAKING. I HAVE SHOWN MULTIPLY TIMES THAT IT IS PLAIN THE ONE SPEAKING DOES NOT KNOW WHAT LANGUAGE OR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT NEED AN INTERPRETER. How much common sense does it take to understand this!

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

How much common sense does it take to understand this verse. If you are going to speak/pray in an unknown tongue you must have an interpreter. You must pray for interpretation. If you are praying in another language then it is not prayer at all because prayer is communication. Communication is two way. If my wife speaks English and German, and I speak English and Spanish. What happens if I speak in Spanish to her and she speaks in German to me (both without interpretation). It is total chaos, and there is no understanding. That is why you cannot pray in an unknown tongue, speak in an unknown tongue or do anything in an unknown tongue except you have an interpreter.

In this common day phenomena, not even God understands you because it is not a language at all. It is just nonsense syllables run together, even as John has pointed out to you. It is a novelty that started in 1905 that was only known by pagans and cults before that time. That is what you are associated with.

Again, you can give no valid evidence of anyone that heals, speaks in other languages miraculously, or of anyone that has the ability to do any of the sign gifts today. They have ceased. You have no evidence. You can't even speak in an unknown language yourself.

 

[awaken]

So is the command to build a tabernacle and dwell in the wilderness. Have you done that too? You have no regard for the context of Scripture. You Did you climb Mt. Sinai like Moses did? That also was a command. You give no regard for context. The Bible says; I believe it--even if the Bible says "there is no God" (Psalm 14:1). You have no regard for context.
I will ask the Lord for you. He is demonic. There is your answer.
You don't know what you are saying. You could be praising Satan. You are simply running your life on your feelings.
Furthermore, give hard evidence that it is the Holy Spirit that it is actually being manifested and not an imitator. Satan is an imitator, the great deceiver. How do you know it is not Satan?
Others said the same thing. Do you know what Jesus said?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

How much common sense does it take to understand this verse. If you are going to speak/pray in an unknown tongue you must have an interpreter. You must pray for interpretation. If you are praying in another language then it is not prayer at all because prayer is communication. Communication is two way. If my wife speaks English and German, and I speak English and Spanish. What happens if I speak in Spanish to her and she speaks in German to me (both without interpretation). It is total chaos, and there is no understanding. That is why you cannot pray in an unknown tongue, speak in an unknown tongue or do anything in an unknown tongue except you have an interpreter.

In this common day phenomena, not even God understands you because it is not a language at all. It is just nonsense syllables run together, even as John has pointed out to you. It is a novelty that started in 1905 that was only known by pagans and cults before that time. That is what you are associated with.

Again, you can give no valid evidence of anyone that heals, speaks in other languages miraculously, or of anyone that has the ability to do any of the sign gifts today. They have ceased. You have no evidence. You can't even speak in an unknown language yourself.

I will not respond to any more of your nonsense! YOu can stay in your unbelief! But for me I will continue my journey without quenching, smothering or putting out the Spirit's fire!

I would be very careful how you give credit to the devil for what God is still doing on the earth today through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit!

 

[DHK]

I will not respond to any more of your nonsense! YOu can stay in your unbelief! But for me I will continue my journey without quenching, smothering or putting out the Spirit's fire!

I would be very careful how you give credit to the devil for what God is still doing on the earth today through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit!

You can't give evidence that God is doing it, not even from the Bible.
How therefore, can you be sure that it is God that is doing it?
You stand on dangerous ground.

 

[John of Japan]

No, not at all.
When Charles Taze Russell stood in a Canadian Court on the charge of adultery, he was asked if he said that he claimed to be able to read the Greek language. Russell replied that he could. They placed a Greek NT in front of him, and he couldn't read a word. He was a fraud, and committing perjury.

If a person today claims that they can speak in Biblical tongues then let them demonstrate it. Give the facts. What language? When? Where? Who witnessed it? Where is the evidence? If there is no evidence then it is quite obvious that the entire thing is fraudulent. I call it like I see it. The Canadian court back in Russell's time were ready to kick him out of Canada.

If one claims to be a Christian they ought to be telling the truth about what they claim and be able to back up their claims. Should we not ask for anything less?

I agree completely. I'd love to see a Charismatic come to my town and speak in Japanese as a gift of the Holy Spirit. This is such a difficult language people would come from all over town just to see the miraculous gaijin (foreigner). We'd see many saved.

But (sigh), they never do come. All the rookie charismatic missionaries are at one or another Japanese language school, and all the veterans are wishing they had studied harder. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Darrell C]

the problem is that we have the truth of the bible, while he has experiences to back up his beliefs!

I was an Elder in the Assemblies of God,schooled in their institution, so know of what I speak!

Hello Yeshua1, it might be helpful to the discussion if you could expand on your statement. Seldom is the testimony of one involved with Charismatic groups who opposes certain doctrines heard.

God bless.

 

[awaken]

I agree completely. I'd love to see a Charismatic come to my town and speak in Japanese as a gift of the Holy Spirit. This is such a difficult language people would come from all over town just to see the miraculous gaijin (foreigner). We'd see many saved.

But (sigh), they never do come. All the rookie charismatic missionaries are at one or another Japanese language school, and all the veterans are wishing they had studied harder. :smilewinkgrin:

You do not see that because that is not the purpose of tongues! Tongues is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. It is to praise and magnify God! Speak to God not to man. (1 Cor. 14).

If you wil notice NOWHERE in scriptures is the manifestation tongues/praying in the spirit is outside the church... except for ones own edification (Jude 20).
Even in 1 Cor. 14 The manifestation is inside the church...the unbeliever comes to the church. The correction is about the misuse of tongues in the church.

No church will witness this if the Holy Spirit is quenched or even worse forbidden!

 

[DHK]

You do not see that because that is not the purpose of tongues! Tongues is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. It is to praise and magnify God! Speak to God not to man. (1 Cor. 14).

If you wil notice NOWHERE in scriptures is the manifestation tongues/praying in the spirit is outside the church... except for ones own edification (Jude 20).
Even in 1 Cor. 14 The manifestation is inside the church...the unbeliever comes to the church. The correction is about the misuse of tongues in the church.

No church will witness this if the Holy Spirit is quenched or even worse forbidden!

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

You take this verse out of context many times. Jude does not mention tongues even one time. Paul does not mention the phrase "praying in the Holy Ghost" even one time." The two are totally unrelated. I pray in the Holy Spirit every day, but that has nothing to do with tongues. It only shows that you don't know how to interpret Scripture.

Perhaps these verses of Scripture are more of an apt warning to you:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[awaken]

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

You take this verse out of context many times. Jude does not mention tongues even one time. Paul does not mention the phrase "praying in the Holy Ghost" even one time." The two are totally unrelated. I pray in the Holy Spirit every day, but that has nothing to do with tongues. It only shows that you don't know how to interpret Scripture.

Perhaps these verses of Scripture are more of an apt warning to you:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I will state this in defense of Paul writings and then leave it alone with you...because I know where it will lead..and I am not going there anymore!

Praying with the spirit
Praying in the Holy Ghost
They are the same!

When you speak in tongues it is your spirit praying the utterances of the Holy Spirit. It comes from your spirit!
Pauls mentions the difference in 1 Cor. 14 of "praying in the spirit" and "praying with understanding."
Jude says "praying in the Holy Ghost"...so by Pauls definition he is saying "praying in the spirit"..which is tongues!

 

[DHK]

I will state this in defense of Paul writings and then leave it alone with you...because I know where it will lead..and I am not going there anymore!

Praying with the spirit
Praying in the Holy Ghost
They are the same!

They are not the same.
Notice the small "s" that Paul uses. That does not equate to the Holy Spirit. It equates to the human spirit or the mind.

When you speak in tongues it is your spirit praying the utterances of the Holy Spirit. It comes from your spirit!

What utterances? You mean that demonic stuff that you have no understanding of, that you have no clue what it means? The Holy Spirit doesn't operate that way.

Pauls mentions the difference in 1 Cor. 14 of "praying in the spirit" and "praying with understanding."

Paul's praying in the spirit always has praying with understanding and is always public. His setting is the local church and is never outside of the local church.

Jude says "praying in the Holy Ghost"...so by Pauls definition he is saying "praying in the spirit"..which is tongues!

They are not the same. They are totally different. Learn how to exegete Scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hello Yeshua1, it might be helpful to the discussion if you could expand on your statement. Seldom is the testimony of one involved with Charismatic groups who opposes certain doctrines heard.

God bless.

Would agree that the Assemblies is a Christian church/group, and would fall into evangelical arminian side, BUT....

they err when describing the "baptism in holy Ghost as evidenced by tongues", as they confuse the baptism paul described that we ALL share in at conversion, and the empowering that ALL can have from him IF filled by Him!

But they would hold to second coming, bible, salvation etc SAME way most baptists would, so the REAL danger is from the cultic/heretical fridge, where the copeland/hagins/Hinns etc hang out!

They state that God works thru faith himself, that faith controls even Him, and that Jesus was NOT eternally God, but was in the thoughts of god , and he shows us how to walk in faith to "write our ticket with god"
he also died as a sinner, and had to get born again in hell, so we ALL can be as another jesus!

they also hold to modern day prophets/apostles, that give forh new/fuller revealtion from god in the books and messages..

Hold to should always have health and prosper, as by our own faith we 'force' God to move...

They are really listening to satan, as they raise up man to be owr own 'gods' same thing satan said!

 

[Revmitchell]

The only Test I have to pass is the Word test..
It is in scriptures! Search the scriptures to see if it is so...
The warfare test..
Anytime the Holy Spirit is being manifested the person can be asked to confess if Jesus is Lord. If not then it is not of God..but demonic.
The works test...
The real test of the Spirit's work will be clearly displayed in a deeper love for Jesus, a new hunger for Scripture, a passion for lost souls, a thirst for righteousness, and a new love for others.

I have passed all these test!

Your test are to satisfy you...you are demanding a sign before you believe. NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY THE ONE SPEAKING IN TONGUES HAVE TO KNOW THE LANGUAGE THEY ARE SPEAKING. I HAVE SHOWN MULTIPLY TIMES THAT IT IS PLAIN THE ONE SPEAKING DOES NOT KNOW WHAT LANGUAGE OR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT NEED AN INTERPRETER. How much common sense does it take to understand this!

Scripture no where says this is the test for tongues being true. What you are doing is abusing scripture and fabricating your own test to meet your agenda. Very sad.

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture no where says this is the test for tongues being true. What you are doing is abusing scripture and fabricating your own test to meet your agenda. Very sad.

Could ne "personal tongues" god grants today to edify ones self, but the sign gift of a tongue to give foeth revealtion from God ceased in Apostolic times!

 

[Darrell C]

Would agree that the Assemblies is a Christian church/group, and would fall into evangelical arminian side, BUT....

they err when describing the "baptism in holy Ghost as evidenced by tongues", as they confuse the baptism paul described that we ALL share in at conversion, and the empowering that ALL can have from him IF filled by Him!

But they would hold to second coming, bible, salvation etc SAME way most baptists would, so the REAL danger is from the cultic/heretical fridge, where the copeland/hagins/Hinns etc hang out!

They state that God works thru faith himself, that faith controls even Him, and that Jesus was NOT eternally God, but was in the thoughts of god , and he shows us how to walk in faith to "write our ticket with god"
he also died as a sinner, and had to get born again in hell, so we ALL can be as another jesus!

they also hold to modern day prophets/apostles, that give forh new/fuller revealtion from god in the books and messages..

Hold to should always have health and prosper, as by our own faith we 'force' God to move...

They are really listening to satan, as they raise up man to be owr own 'gods' same thing satan said!

Hello Yeshua1.

They state that God works thru faith himself, that faith controls even Him, and that Jesus was NOT eternally God, but was in the thoughts of god , and he shows us how to walk in faith to "write our ticket with god"
he also died as a sinner, and had to get born again in hell, so we ALL can be as another jesus!

I was not aware of this one. Yikes!

The above I would see to fall into heresy, though I would say that not all AoG members should be cast into the same basket, as we know that all fellowships vary as to the knowledge of distinctive doctrines known by the members tempered by the fact that not all members, even if they are aware of the distinctives...adhere to such teaching.

When I was younger I dated an AoG member and actually went on a missions trip with them. Some great people in that group. One fellow was so zealous for Christ he had a huge (and I mean huge...) picture of Christ (so to speak) tattooed on his arm. lol...I think that if the man were not truly saved, that tattoo will be a daily witness of Christ to him.

Thanks for responding, as it is seldom that we here the testimony of those that were formerly members of specific groups. I visited many Charismatic churches (as well as Pentecostal) and found them to range from conservative (which the AoG I visited was very much) to fanatical, in which they would open the floor and everyone would "speak in toingues." This one place also was visited because I was datiung a girl that attended their.

See how much trouble women are?

Just kidding. The Lord led me to the one that I married almost twelve years ago, and I am glad to say that I am equally yoked, lol.

Could ne "personal tongues" god grants today to edify ones self, but the sign gift of a tongue to give foeth revealtion from God ceased in Apostolic times!

Establishing two "gifts of tongues" is not, in my opinion, credible. Unless we consider that God spoke of "tongues" concerning judgment on Israel.

We see the biblical definition and example in Acts 2, whereas in 1 Corinthians 14 we see a rebuke. One person spoke of self edification, but what is not remembered is that the gift was not for believers, but for unbelievers.

Okay...think I have talked myself out for a while.

Hope everyone has a blessed day.

God bless.

 

[awaken]

They are not the same.
Notice the small "s" that Paul uses. That does not equate to the Holy Spirit. It equates to the human spirit or the mind.

What utterances? You mean that demonic stuff that you have no understanding of, that you have no clue what it means? The Holy Spirit doesn't operate that way.

Paul's praying in the spirit always has praying with understanding and is always public. His setting is the local church and is never outside of the local church.

They are not the same. They are totally different. Learn how to exegete Scripture.

Again...if you want to know my response to this read our past post/threads. We have hashed it out..and we just do not agree.

I will say that the little s and capital S in scriptures depend on context! Sometimes little s is put where there should be a S and visa versa...but that is another thread!

 

[awaken]

Scripture no where says this is the test for tongues being true. What you are doing is abusing scripture and fabricating your own test to meet your agenda. Very sad.

So you are saying that scripture does not have to back up your belief! Or to say it another way...your belief does not have to be backed up by scripture. That is test #1.

Are you saying also that one that speaks by the spirit of God can call Jesus accursed? Can Jesus really be Lord over your life if you are not controlled by the Holy Spirit? Test #2

So since you do not believe in test #3 are you saying that...

A deeper love for Jesus, a new hunger for Scripture, a passion for lost souls, a thirst for righteousness, and a new love for others is not a sign that it is of God. I would think if it was of the devil that He would lead you away from these instead to them...

 

[Revmitchell]

So you are saying that scripture does not have to back up your belief! Or to say it another way...your belief does not have to be backed up by scripture. That is test #1.

What?! Where in my words did you get that??? You need to go back and reread what I posted.

Are you saying also that one that speaks by the spirit of God can call Jesus accursed? Can Jesus really be Lord over your life if you are not controlled by the Holy Spirit? Test #2

Show me the scriptural prescription for this test. What passage says that they are connected?

So since you do not believe in test #3 are you saying that...

A deeper love for Jesus, a new hunger for Scripture, a passion for lost souls, a thirst for righteousness, and a new love for others is not a sign that it is of God. I would think if it was of the devil that He would lead you away from these instead to them...

Or it could just be a flesh thing, even by Christians. I reject your strawman

 

[awaken]

Establishing two "gifts of tongues" is not, in my opinion, credible. Unless we consider that God spoke of "tongues" concerning judgment on Israel.

We see the biblical definition and example in Acts 2, whereas in 1 Corinthians 14 we see a rebuke. One person spoke of self edification, but what is not remembered is that the gift was not for believers, but for unbelievers.


God bless.

Can you define what they were doing in Acts 2? What were the ones doing that were speaking in different languages? Who were they speaking too? Remember they were speaking before the crowd gathered. It was the noise abroad that drew the crowd.

Other than Acts.. how was it for the unbelievers? How was it to be a sign to unbelievrs?

Would you say prayer is edifying? Would you say spending time with God in prayer would build yourself up in your spirit?

These questions are the ones I had to answer when I was searching this out...