I have answered this question several times, it is just another deflection, use this rule, if Y1 describes my views without a quote, it is disinformation.
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Choice: God or Man - exegete John 6:32-40
- Thread starter Particular
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Particular
Well-Known Member
I have already answered this. They have the God given capacity to choose to believe or not.
Here is part of my post #40:
Romans 4:4-5 indicates the person, once aware of God's promises, including the gospel, can with his or her God given capacity to trust, choose to trust fully, in part or not at all in those promises.
Scripture says close to a dozen times "his faith" or "your faith" but never says your "God given faith." So faith comes from hearing (or becoming aware) of the promises of God, and then choosing to trust in them.
Yet another bogus claim, salvation by grace is the gift, but it is through our faith with is not works, as credited by God.
Particular
Well-Known Member
They have the God given capacity to choose to believe.
To me, that means God gives everyone the capacity within themselves to create their own faith. But, you deny humans can create faith.
So, ultimately, God decides who will be capable of believing so that they will believe.
Van, it seems you have created an elaborate labyrinth that still ends up at God choosing who will believe.
Of course humans can create bogus faith. Atheism is an example. God did not reveal the basis of their faith. But I deny humans created their faith in Christ.
And once again, I did not say "God decides who will be capable of believing so that they will believe." That is hogwash. God decides whose faith to credit as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5.
I have laid out the scriptures that teach (1) God reveals himself, (2) the Gospel is the power of God for salvation, (3) we choose to trust in God's promises to some degree, (4) God credits some of our faiths as righteousness and places those credited spiritually in Christ, giving those credited to Christ.,
This is rather basic and not confusing.
Scripture says "his faith" or "your faith" close to a dozen times. You seem unwilling accept the faith God credits was ours.
Particular
Well-Known Member
You need to do the entire quote, as was saying that was what Van believes!
Your consistent misrepresentation of my view cannot be explained by claiming my views have not been presented with great clarity.
I have answered your question six ways from Sunday, but you still do not quote me.
Did I explain in excruciating detail how we choose to put our faith in Christ? Yes.
Did I explain that our choice does not save us? Yes
Did I explain God revealed His gospel to us but did not compel us to believe? Yes
Did I explain God created us with the capacity to put our trust in Christ? Yes
Pardon me but you seem intent on obfuscation, asking questions that have been answered and making charges about my lack of clarity. Me thinks thou protests too much.
Note folks, I did not say grace, but said capacity. Y1 constantly misrepresents the views of others, pay no attention to the stream of falsehoods he spews.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Your consistent misrepresentation of my view cannot be explained by claiming my views have not been presented with great clarity.
I have answered your question six ways from Sunday, but you still do not quote me.
Did I explain in excruciating detail how we choose to put our faith in Christ? Yes.
Did I explain that our choice does not save us? Yes
Did I explain God revealed His gospel to us but did not compel us to believe? Yes
Did I explain God created us with the capacity to put our trust in Christ? Yes
Pardon me but you seem intent on obfuscation, asking questions that have been answered and making charges about my lack of clarity. Me thinks thou protests too much.
I'm not intending to obfuscate. Your position is just confusing. To me it seems that you may be intentionally making it more complicated than God has made it. I'll drop it and simply admit I don't understand your position.
Personal incredulity does not diminish the truth.
Some deny God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness.
Some do not.
Some deny the gospel is the power of God for salvation.
Some do not.
Some deny God sets apart in Christ those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
Some do not.
Some deny God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness.
Some do not.
Some deny the gospel is the power of God for salvation.
Some do not.
Some deny God sets apart in Christ those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
Some do not.
Particular
Well-Known Member
God credits our faith as righteous...because God gave us the faith. It is righteous...because it is from God. A gift of which no man can boast.
You seem to emphasize your faith as though it is something you have built that you hope God will credit as righteous. You seem to indicate that God places it in all humans and then humans have to take the rough, unpolished and undeveloped faith and make it beautiful for God in hopes that He credits it as righteous.
The more I converse with you and ask clarification questions, the more angry you get.
Perhaps you think you are making a simple statement, but I find you making things muddy regarding faith.
God gives us faith through His word, the gospel. The gospel is sufficient.
Particular
Well-Known Member
Yet, not all who hear the good news or read the good news are given faith. I know atheists who can articulate the gospel more clearly than some Christians, but they have no faith.
Certainly God may grant faith to someone who hears the gospel or reads it, but God may not grant them faith either. Would you agree?
Uh no I do not hold to total depravity.
You said it right in the first place" God does credit our faith" God gave us the gospel from which the hearing of does give us faith. Faith is not a gift in the sense that it's just given us with out knowing the gospel or anything about Christ. We are created with a measure of faith. The gospel teaches us of where to place that faith in order to have Salvation. All men are capable of placing faith in Christ Jesus. Believing in Christ is what men must do to be saved.
We are not regenerated so we can have faith and scripture never says we are. There is no grace with out faith.
MB
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