Particular
Well-Known Member
That's not what I asked.
I stated:
Certainly God may grant faith to someone who hears the gospel or reads it, but God may not grant them faith either. Would you agree?
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Choice: God or Man - exegete John 6:32-40
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I stated:
Certainly God may grant faith to someone who hears the gospel or reads it, but God may not grant them faith either. Would you agree?
Particular
Well-Known Member
.
Ok ill reword it, since i do not hold to total depravity i cannot agree with the wording of your question.
Salvation is a gift not faith. Faith comes from the gospel.
Particular
Well-Known Member
So, you believe that all humans are created with faith. That faith is either grown or destroyed by human choice. If we choose to grow faith in the gospel, God may credit that effort to grow faith as being righteous. (Of course, he may not credit us, either.) The responsibility for growing the innate faith God created us with is solely up to whether the individual chooses to hear the gospel or not hear the gospel.
Is that what you are claiming?
Particular
Well-Known Member
I don't understand your response.
I can't make it any clearer than that
Particular
Well-Known Member
You probably can't.
Sorry for your misunderstanding
[Mat 13:14 KJV] 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
They heard to good news but their hearing did not result in faith.
Seeing their Messiah in person, they did not recognize Him.
[Rom 10:17 KJV] 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith comes by hearing the gospel and embracing it by the work of the Holy Spirit.
[Rom 8:11 KJV] 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
They heard to good news but their hearing did not result in faith.
Seeing their Messiah in person, they did not recognize Him.
[Rom 10:17 KJV] 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith comes by hearing the gospel and embracing it by the work of the Holy Spirit.
[Rom 8:11 KJV] 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Particular
Well-Known Member
So, it seems that you are saying that God, the Holy Spirit, chooses to give faith to those who hear the gospel. The Holy Spirit may or may not give faith since many may hear the gospel and never respond in faith.
Is that accurate?
Yes. faith is believing and everyone believes in something. There is only one kind of faith and everyone has it.
Faith is not destroyed but we can loose faith.
There is no effort we either believe or we don't.
Yes we either choose to believe or we don't. We are never made to or forced to believe. Everything in life is by choice.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
So if I am color blind and believe the color red is actually green, I am somehow expressing faith...simply because I believe something?
Do you think the Bible actually speaks of faith this way or are you forcing your opinion onto the Bible?
When I read what you have said, anyone's opinion becomes their faith (as you have expressed it). If my opinion is that Moses lived his life in Tierra del Fuego, then my opinion is my faith. God has nothing to do with faith. My opinion determines my faith.
Honestly, I cannot see how you find such a concept of faith in the Bible. But, maybe the Bible isn't your source for defining faith.
Yes, that is accurate based on the word of God, the Bible. Consider the following verses.
[Mat 1:21 KJV] 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Whose people? His people, not all people.
[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
He did the choosing.
[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
God chose His children and set them apart through the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
[1Pe 2:9 KJV] 9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Him who called you out of spiritual death to spiritual life.
[Mat 24:31 KJV] 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
His elect.
[Rom 8:33 KJV] 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
God's elect.
[Col 3:12 KJV] 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Elect of God.
[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Elect according to God's foreknowledge and sanctified (set apart, separated from the world) by the Holy Spiritl
[Rom 3:11 KJV] 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Spiritually dead souls cannot seek after the spiritual life giver - God.
[2Co 1:22 KJV] 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
The Holy Spirit seals God's children.
[Eph 1:13 KJV] 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[Eph 4:30 KJV] 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Faith is what it is. Some Calvinist claim a special kind of faith although in the Bible faith is faith, There is no special kind of faith. Faith is believing Our faith can be influenced by God or Satan or even our own thinking
[QUOTE="Particular, post: 2531149, member: 15651"
When I read what you have said, anyone's opinion becomes their faith (as you have expressed it). If my opinion is that Moses lived his life in Tierra del Fuego, then my opinion is my faith. God has nothing to do with faith. My opinion determines my faith..
[/QUOTE]
Faith is faith it is what you believe
[QUOTE="Particular, post: 2531149, member: 15651"
Honestly, I cannot see how you find such a concept of faith in the Bible. But, maybe the Bible isn't your source for defining faith.[/QUOTE]
All I can tell you is what I believe. If you can find any other kind in the Bible I'd like to see it.
This below is how websters defines faith
Faith
FAITH, n. [L. fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey. In the Greek Lexicon of Hederic it is said, the primitive signification of the verb is to bind and draw or lead, as signifies a rope or cable. But this remark is a little incorrect. The sense of the verb, from which that of rope and binding is derived, is to strain, to draw, and thus to bind or make fast. A rope or cable is that which makes fast. Heb.]
Try looking up faith. You'll find that it is nothing more than believing
MB
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God gives us faith in Him through His word and not only this He strengthens our faith through His word. We already have the ability to believe hear and understand.
MB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Faith is what God tells us it is.
I looked up what God tells us. I notice that Jesus is the author and the perfector of faith. So... it's not what we feel.
Hebrews 11:1-40 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore. These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them. By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies. And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
I don't know anyone who says it is. However, it is trust whether one has it as a result of an innate ability (provided by God at creation) or it is a gift of God. Either way it is our ability to trust in God. How it is acquired is irrelevant to what it is. Since, Scripture makes it clear that the gospel is sufficient to provide faith, and we know that God provides on going faith through His word your post is rather odd.
Particular
Well-Known Member
How faith is acquired is not irrelevant. If it comes from us, then I have reason to boast. If it comes from God, I have reason to be grateful.
When we use the word "gospel" we should note that only those whom God gives ears to hear will respond to the good news. For all others the gospel is foolishness. If God did not open ears, all humanity would consider the gospel to be foolish.
If you are going to quote me quote me in its entirety. I said how we acquire faith is irrelevant to what it is. And everyone can hear the gospel.
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