Chosen in Him Before the Foundation of the world

[Barry Johnson]

The objector is the Jew who is seeing the gentiles coming in ( previously they had to join the club for three years get circumcision ect ) by Grace and the Jew who had the oracles , the law , moses ect are being Judicially hardened ect

You need to read on into chapter 11 to understand Paul's point in chapter 9 . this is the mistake people make . they stop in chapter 9 and make doctrines out of it . The conclusion is in chapter 11 .
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[Alan Gross]

what are they chosen for in ephesians 1 ?

The 'chosen', in Ephesians 1 are those Paul is speaking to, including himself.

That is the answer, as far as the 'one interpretation'.

After that, if there is an application of some or part to all that have been 'chosen', then that is 'an application', sure.

"to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"

who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

 

[Barry Johnson]

"Barry Johnson


To be Chosen In Him is the guarantee of salvation.
The Ungodly world is not chosen in Him.
You mention Romans8: here is a solid portion;
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

When are you conformed to the image of his Son ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

The 'chosen', in Ephesians 1 are those Paul is speaking to, including himself.

That is the answer, as far as the 'one interpretation'.

After that, if there is an application of some or part to all that have been 'chosen', then that is 'an application', sure.

"to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"

who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

When is the Adoption ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

I agree, Barry.
Nowhere does Scripture state that mankind has lost the ability to respond when revelation is given.
So, according to this passage, who is this revelation given to?

" At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]." ( Matthew 11:25-27 )

You keep going back before the cross for your doctrine today ?

 

[Alan Gross]

You keep going back before the cross for your doctrine today ?

 

[Alan Gross]

You keep going back before the cross for your doctrine today ?

dead. the soul is as dead to God, like a nail, with no ability to discern, whatsoever, ANYTHING SPIRITUAL, Ever.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Was Lydia?
Acts of the Apostles 16:14.

It works the same way for everyone that is saved, Barry.

Check the context surrounding Lydia . It says God opened her heart . That's it . Was she already saved ? We dont have much on Lydia so as

dead. the soul is as dead to God, like a nail, with no ability to discern, whatsoever, ANYTHING SPIRITUAL, Ever.

But that is not scripture ..That's what you believe

 

[Barry Johnson]

Check the context surrounding Lydia . It says God opened her heart . That's it .
14And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Was she like cornelius . Already following Yahweh ?
But that is not scripture ..That's what you believe

 

[Barry Johnson]

I agree, Barry.
Nowhere does Scripture state that mankind has lost the ability to respond when revelation is given.
So, according to this passage, who is this revelation given to?

" At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]." ( Matthew 11:25-27 )

Revelation given is Creation , Conscience, The Bible , The Gosepl ..This leaves everyone without excuse as Roman's 1 says

 

[Dave G]

My point was it is the Jew who is complaining not a Arminian gentile .

My point is that the letter is written to both Jew and Gentile believers...the Romans.
Believers are of both Jews and Gentiles, so the letter addresses the objections in our minds as believers.

 

[Barry Johnson]

"Barry Johnson


To be Chosen In Him is the guarantee of salvation.
The Ungodly world is not chosen in Him.
You mention Romans8: here is a solid portion;
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The Guarentee of salvation is the sealing of the Holy spirit until the day of redemption.

 

[Dave G]

The objector is the Jew who is seeing the gentiles coming in ( previously they had to join the club for three years get circumcision ect ) by Grace and the Jew who had the oracles , the law , moses ect are being Judicially hardened ect

I disagree, Barry.

See my post immediately above.

 

[Dave G]

The Guarentee of salvation is the sealing of the Holy spirit until the day of redemption.

That's one of them, Barry.
Another is enduring faith that just won't quit in the face of all trials and tribulations.

 

[Barry Johnson]

My point is that the letter is written to Gentile believers...the Romans.
Believers are of both Jews and Gentiles, so the letter addresses the objections in our minds as believers.

Roman's 9 goes with 10 and 11 . Without 10 and 11 you wont understand 9 properly

 

[Barry Johnson]

That's one of them, Barry.
Another is enduring faith that just won't quit in the face of all trials and tribulations.

it's not our faith that saves . Endurance is not the Gospel Paul preached for salvation.

 

[Barry Johnson]

it's not our faith that saves . Endurance is not the Gospel Paul preached for salvation.

Our little faith when we believe the Gosepl is the access point to the Grace .Then we are sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption. Notice how long and until we are sealed for and to .

 

[Dave G]

You need to read on into chapter 11 to understand Paul's point in chapter 9

Barry, Romans 11 is a continuation of Romans 10, which continues from Romans 1, 2 ,3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.

Romans 8:29-30 tells us who God has saved and how.
Romans 9 tells us who and why.
Romans 10 tells us who and how.
Romans 11 further clarifies why and who.

Roman's 9 goes with 10 and 11 . Without 10 and 11 you wont understand 9 properly

Without Romans 8, we won't understand Romans 9, 10, and 11.

I don't need to go to 10 and 11 in order to understand 9.
I need to understand 8 before I go to 9 and so forth.

I think you have it reversed, as they are not written in that order.

 

[Dave G]

it's not our faith that saves .

Amen.

Our little faith when we believe the Gosepl is the access point to the Grace .

Apologies, but it appears to me that you've contradicted yourself here.

Faith is a gift, Barry.
See Ephesians 2:8-10.
Note:
The Bible never says believers are saved by faith, it says we are saved through it.

What's more, not all men have faith ( 1 Thessalonians 3:2 ), so where does faith come from?.
It is the faith of God's elect ( Titus 1:1 ).

Back to gifts...
It is given in the behalf of Christ for a person to both believe on Him, and to suffer for His sake ( Again, Philippians 1:29 ).
Things that are given by God, are gifts.

Eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23).
It is not a reward gained by "exercising faith".

Faith is not the key...

God's mercy and grace are ( Titus 3:5-6 ).
Anyone whom God has decided to have mercy towards, is granted the rest.
Everything good that a person has, especially a believer, comes from God ( John 3:27, James 1:17 ).

That goodness leads us as men to repentance ( Romans 2:4 ).
Though we will not repent ( John 3:19-20 ) in and of ourselves, and we will not seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 ).

I wish you well sir, and this is my last reply to you in this thread.



May God bless you in your studies of His word, and may you always look to Him in your times of trial and need.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry, Romans 11 is a continuation of Romans 10, which continues from Romans 1, 2 ,3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.

Romans 8:29-30 tells us who God loves.

Without Romans 8, we won't understand Romans 9, 10, and 11.

I don't need to go to 10 and 11 in order to understand 9.
I need to understand 8 before I go to 9 and so forth.

I think you have it reversed, as they are not written in that order.

Then you will miss that God has temporarily hardened the jews until the fullness of the gentiles comes in and that this is done to demonstrate God has mercy towards all . Jews and Gentiles. That's the point of rom 9
30¶What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
chapter 10
1¶Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
chapter 10
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18¶But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19¶But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20¶But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21¶But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
chapter 11
1¶I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9¶And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11¶I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
25¶For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 9 has a absolutely nothing to do with gentiles not being saved because they have been doomed from the womb and banished from birth . 9 , 10 , 11 are about ISRAEL and there ' stumble ' and because of their unbelief God is temporarily setting Israel aside ( Not all Israel . A remnant still comes in . individuals can still come ) The blessings are now been focused towards the Gentiles who are now filling the pews and having tea and biscuits with the jews . This is shocking for the Jew , that's the objector.Not an Arminian arguing about free will and how it not fair .