It seems hard for you to understand. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and the New in Greek, but you have to resort to Latin to try (and fail) to give us the meaning. In fact, propitius is an adjective, not a noun, so in any case it cannot help us to find the meaning of hilasterion, which is a noun. As I wrote in the O.P., it refers to the “mercy seat” (Hebrews 9:5) which was the cover of the ark of the covenant which resided in the Holiest Place in the Tabernacle. It was where the Jewish High Priest went once a year on the Day of Atonement to offer sacrifices, first for himself and then for the people (Heb. 9:7). This was the most solemn of all the Jewish ceremonies. The sacrificial offering was a death in the place of the one who offered it (Leviticus 16:6). A propitiation is a sacrifice that turns away wrath. If a man were to upset his wife in some way, he might buy her a bunch of flowers as a propitiation, to satisfy her outraged sense of wrong and turn away her righteous anger. Of course, the man would not know if these flowers would be sufficient for that. His wife might hold out for a meal in a slap-up restaurant! But we know that God is satisfied by the suffering and death of Christ because it was He who set Him forth. Christ was our substitute. ‘He was pierced for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him’ (Isaiah 53:5, NIV).
Amen! Thank you for some Scripture which is grievously lacking in most of your posts. But tell me, how do you think the death of Christ destroyed the devil? How did it free anyone?
So the Levitical sacrifices were pagan, were they? Did God not authorize, and indeed, command them? So the LORD is a pagan deity, is He?Christ is indeed our propitiation or 'mercy seat.'
Christ's session as our Great High Priest comes after His death, resurrectionand ascension.
And if the propitiation is nothing else but our clothing with righteousness and being conformed into His image, what need was there for our Lord to suffer and die? Why did He refuse the wine mixed with myrrh in Mark 15:23?
You should stop trotting out yours then.
You still can't explain how all this comes to be. 'The LORD ...... will not at all acquit the guilty' (Nahum 1:3). '...Keepimg mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, transgressions and sin, by no means clearing the guilty' (Exodus 34How is it possible for God to forgive iniquity, transgressions and sin and by no means to clear the guilty? Only through the Lord Jesus whom God set forth as as the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10). 'By His wounds, we are healed.' Penal substitution in a nutshell.
Yeah right! You think God's a pagan; we know that already.
No. I already told you why we differ.
I believe the words of God ARE what the Bible teaches.
So I believe that God laid our dins on Him, that He was crushed for our iniquities, that it is by His stripes we are healed.
You believe what the men you have chosen to worship tell you that means.
ANE paganism did not view God as making man into a new creation.
These pagans believed that the wrath of their gods could be appeased. So they offered sacrifices to manipulate their gods.
The reason there are the pagan ideas in your faith is not because you look back to pagan Rome but is because you hold a reformed Roman Catholic faith (those ideas were within your tradition).
That is why I can provide verses stating my faith. I have not denied any passages - I have denied what those men you worship say the passages teach. Snd you declare God's words alone as paganism.
I get that. God's words to you are foolishness. You look to men, to philosophy, to theory. His words alone simply do not make sence to you. The natural cannot understand the things of the Spirit. So you have to trust in men, in your own understanding.
And we can all see that.
God's word says one thing, you believe anither thing (what you think is really taught, your understanding).
You should have trusted not in your own understanding but in every word that comes form God.
This is a very solid presentation among all who believe and Know the truth. You compare scripture with scripture to refine your understanding which is essential. Those who have turned from truth might suggest this is a theory rather than biblical teaching, it could be they do not understand what you have presented, or perhaps they have gotten lost in the theological weeds. This teaching is welcome in every church I have attended or visited, except for one little apostate methodist church. Thanks for this fine post!
The passages
@Martin Marprelate present are indeed excellent and relevant.
The problem is that a few of you (you,
@David Lamb ,
@Martin Marprelate ) seem to consider those passages alone as foolishness.
Rather than taking God's words for what they are in themselves you trust in what men have said they "realky m" teach.
This is no different from any cult (in method) who tell their disciples what God "really" teaches.
WHAT IF those passages are teaching EXACTLY "what is written"?? What is Scripture interprets Scripture?
Then you all would be wrong.
Instead of picking a sect of men to believe, why not just believe God? The difficult oassages will be ime less difficult the more you rest in His words. Don't pick men. Choose God.
Notice how John posts partial verse not even in dispute, the rewords others to try and justify his nonsense. You see this in post 48..he lists things no one is asking about! he then changes the concept that Paul gave us in Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
he has been asked dozens of times , what happens to the wrath that was upon all of us? he skips over it and says...the wicked will be punished, ignoring the wrath that was upon us also.LOL We are not supposed to notice how he skips past it, look at all his posts. he has the same M.O. ship the real question, then offer verses no one is asking about, then claim you only go by scripture, sad and laughable at the same time.
Yes, you cannot dispute my belief without disputing God's word. But you do anyway.
You ask nonsense questions (like "what happens to God's wrath?" as if wrath were a material thing God keeps in His pocket).
The wicked store up wrath for themselves for the day of wrath. (Yes, that is a verse in the Bible...God's words).
Where do the wicked put this wrath while they are waiting for that Day? Why don't they just flush it down the toilet?
Why does God put it that way - that the wicked are the ones storing up this wrath?
