Christ set forth as a Propitiation

[JesusFan]

Never popular with Roman Catholics, Liberals, Pelagians or Mormons

And early has been attacked by the "new view of Paul" gang, headlined by NT Wright and his gang

 

[JonC]

Never popular with Roman Catholics, Liberals, Pelagians or Mormons

Actually, it is popular with liberal Chriatianity and it is a Mormon (although not the most popular) theory.
But Pelagians (the initial heresy) was before the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement was invented.

It was also never popular among Lutherans (they make the distinction of satisfactory punishment rather than penal), it was non-existant among the Early Church (who used language penal substitution theorists claim is their theory while ignoring they viewed the source of Jesus suffering and death to Satan).

But who cares? The main issue is your theory is foreign to God's Word.

 

[JonC]

Think that the majority pf Baptists who are scholars, teachers, pastors, and theologians would disagree with you on this assumption that Psa iis somehow a minor and trivial viewpoint of the Atonement

You think wrong. At one time all Baptist scholars and theologians rejected your theory. With time many were influenced by the Presbyterian church and adopted the theory. Today Baptist theologians are divided.


But here you ago again....looking for men who tickle your ears.

You have never provided even one verse in all of Scripture stating your theory.


Do you know the difference between leaning on your understanding versus every word that comes forth from God?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Scripture does not say the wrath of God gets propitiated.

Romans 3:25. God set Him forth as a propitiation by His blood.' What do you think that means? Do you suppose that God is not propitiated by the death of Christ? Would that not suggest a serious failure on God's part in setting Him forth to no avail, and on Christ's part if the shedding of His blood failed to propitiate God towards sinners?

God's wrath is against the wicked.
God conformes us into the image of Christ
God recreates us in Christ
God gives us a new heart and a new spirit
God will refine us as gold and silver are regined

What need therefore for the Lord Jesus to suffer and die? God has sorted it out.

We must die to the flesh and be made alive in Christ
We must repent, turn from evil and to God
We must be born of the Spirit
We must be made alive in Christ

It sounds like a lot of work. How do we accomplish these things? And if God is going to do it all for us, on what basis will He do it?

God will judge the wicked on "the Day of Wrath"
God will separate the people on that Day
God will punish the wicked on the Day of Judgmeny

Shouldn't that come before the last bit?

Christ became a life giving Spirit
In Christ there is no condemnation

If, on the day of judgment, you remain wicked then you will face condemnation

If you have been conformed into the image of Christ, been made a new creation, been born of the Spirit, been refined, died to the flesh then you will live.

So why the cross?

Christ IS the Propitiation for human sin.

How exactly? I know, and so do most of the people on this board, but I don't think you do. Why could He not be the propitiation for human sin by doing 20 press-ups or doing some more miracles or...... anything really apart from dying on a wooden cross?

God set forth Christ AS a Propitiation

Just so, but you left out the phrase that follows.

In Him we escape the wrath to come
In Him we are reconciled to God.

Again, how exactly?

 

[JonC]

Romans 3:25. God set Him forth as a propitiation by His blood.' What do you think that means? Do you suppose that God is not propitiated by the death of Christ? Would that not suggest a serious failure on God's part in setting Him forth to no avail, and on Christ's part if the shedding of His blood failed to propitiate God towards sinners?

What need therefore for the Lord Jesus to suffer and die? God has sorted it out.

It sounds like a lot of work. How do we accomplish these things? And if God is going to do it all for us, on what basis will He do it?

Shouldn't that come before the last bit?

So why the cross?

How exactly? I know, and so do most of the people on this board, but I don't think you do. Why could He not be the propitiation for human sin by doing 20 press-ups or doing some more miracles or...... anything really apart from dying on a wooden cross?

Just so, but you left out the phrase that follows.

Again, how exactly?

God set forth Jesus as a Propitiation by His blood.

It is not hard to understand.

God (here the Father as Jesus offered Himself in obedience to the Father).
Set forth (put forth, sent)
Him (Jesus, the Son)
as a (a preposition to show a role or function)
Propitiation (a noun, something that brings favor, from "propitius" which means favorable or gracious).
In His blood (points to Christ's obedience tp death, His crucifixion


If you are having difficulty, think of how we use the words.

If I want you to mow my lawn but I kept your trimmer last month and that aggravated you, and you like chocolate then I may give you a candy bar in hopes you will mow my lawn. I would be propitiating you, the candy bar would be the propitiation.

In this case (not in this verse, but in the case of Christ, He actively propitiates God as our High Priest, as a Mediator.



Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, so that through death He might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.