Christianity & Islam

[popsthebuilder]

You think that if you do unto others as you would have them do unto you that you are without fault in God's eyes? I do know some people that believe this. I have a Catholic friend who believes that if you are a generally good person and genuinely care for other people that you are OK with God. Christ, for people like this, is nothing but an example of how to live. But Christ, of course, denounced this belief. He did not settle on "following the golden rule." I am sure, however, that your atheistic friend is a nice guy. I wish that being nice guys and following the golden rule made us just in God's eyes....but that would be hijacking God's redemptive purpose and putting it squarely centered on man....would it not?

God's redemptive purpose is to open our eyes so that we can choose the right path as opposed to a selfish twisted deceitful one. In following the golden rule we are right in God's eyes. In hoisting ones self up above any other is wrong as all glory is God's, as should be all pride and praise.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

Atheists believe in the Bible as well. They all know it exists, some even find merit in its teachings. So what? It had nothing to do with interpretation of translated texts. It has everything to do with acceptance and the grounds upon which it is accepted.

Have you not had time to think this through, or are you simply unfamiliar with Christianity?

Knowing that a book exists and learning from that book of its selfless lessons are two different things. I like Steven King novels, that doesn't mean I believe in werewolves and vampires. The hate mongerers are the sinners, regardless of religious affiliation.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[JonC]

Knowing that a book exists and learning from that book of its selfless lessons are two different things.

Knowing the Bible as a book of selfless lessons and knowing the Bible as God's self revelation are also two very different things.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Sounds like the Ba'hai religion to me.

 

[JonC]

Sounds like the Ba'hai religion to me.

Ba'hai, maybe Unity, "new age fusion"...who knows. It isn't Christian (and I'm really not sure why we're discussing it here in the "All Christians" forum).

 

[JonC]

God's redemptive purpose is to open our eyes so that we can choose the right path as opposed to a selfish twisted deceitful one. In following the golden rule we are right in God's eyes. In hoisting ones self up above any other is wrong as all glory is God's, as should be all pride and praise.

Is you faith something that "god" told you or gave you in that crisis situation, or is it derived from some type of scripture (as it seems antithesis to Christian and Jewish scripture)?

I am sure, BTW, that the doctrine that Jesus is eternally God, that he willingly died to redeem mankind and rose as the first among many brethern, and that all who believe in Him (all who repent of themselves, their own self righteousness and place their faith in Him) will have eternal life seems like foolishness to you (like us merely following what is taught). I also know that my clinging to God as the center of redemption instead of man (and our unity, peace, etc) probably seems like foolishness as well. I want you to know that I do not take offense at your rejection of my faith (although for conversations sake I wish you were a bit more bold in what you deny).

 

[Don]

No. Dividing Christ from God is the problem. Christ is literally God due to the fact that he returned to God upon death.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Almost correct. While on this earth, Jesus was still fully God while being fully man; so "returning to God" didn't make Him God any more than upon our deaths and entering Heaven makes us God.

Those religions that divide Him from God (Judaism and Islam, for example) are the divisors, not Christianity. If your mission is anything, it's to let them know that denial of Christ is denial of God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

JonC

God won't tell you to have faith and you'll have it. That is rediculous. Of course my Faith comes from what I know from God directly, my own knowledge, and lastly, but most important from varied ancient texts.

Your surety and assumption through life will be your undoing. I know without doubt due to Faith that Jesus is God. I have said nothing but that self rightiousness is completely wrong. All praise is to God. Pretty sure I said that about 5 times. The pony foolishness here are your hasty, assuming, nonsensical conclusions. I am a believer of Christ. As I have stated; if from no other reason, Christ is still God because he assended to God and was joined with him upon death. I really don't know why you keep putting words in my mouth.

Now know this, I do take offence to your hateful lies about me, your arrogant, blind assumptions, and your misdirection of points I make for unity. I am both bold and without fear. I have always had those qualities to some extent. God/ Jesus/ Allah/ the Messiah/ creator, creation has only strengthened my resolve. By the way, I have always been somewhat selfless too. He just makes sure I now am. Please attempt to open your eyes to the hate that you are breeding. No one else can do it for you.

Thank you again, these conversations are no doubt helpfully to all who witness them.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

Almost correct. While on this earth, Jesus was still fully God while being fully man; so "returning to God" didn't make Him God any more than upon our deaths and entering Heaven makes us God.

Those religions that divide Him from God (Judaism and Islam, for example) are the divisors, not Christianity. If your mission is anything, it's to let them know that denial of Christ is denial of God.

Thank you. Through wisdom,through God we can help. Christ was the perfect human. The only one that will ever be. This is only possible through God's majesty. This must be spread for the sake of existence. Thank you again. I have trouble with words. You are to help as all with true wisdom are.

Let me not be proud for you and the Lord just showed me.

We must let our blessing/ gift that all may attain help others.

Good luck.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[McCree79]

, Christ is still God because he assended to God and was joined with him upon death.

So, when everyone on earth ascends to God, are they God as well? When Elijah and Enoch were taken up to heaven, without dying, does that make them God? The deity of Christ has always been. He has always been God. He wasn't created. God cannot make another God. By definition, the created would be a creation, not God.

Now know this, I do take offence to your hateful lies about me, your arrogant, blind assumptions, and your misdirection of points I make for unity.

Where is this hate? JonC has been very patient. John speaks truth when he says you are creating a God in your image.

God's redemptive purpose is to open our eyes.... In following the golden rule we are right in God's eyes.

You are now making up your own plan of salvation.

.

I speak only of the one God. To refute my words that have literally been instilled in me by God will eventually prove quite damning. All praise is for God and God alone.

You seem to have deemed yourself a prophet. That your god has given you special revelation. How did you receive the words "instilled in me by god"?

You have also been given insight to predict the damnation (divine revelation has well?) of JonC. No less by him refuting the words of....the words of you. The prophet of a god you are creating in your image.

The error of you belief has been pointed out to you many of times with patience. It is becoming clear, you are here to not learn, but to spread your false god and false beliefs. The beliefs you hold are not only unorthodox, but are in no regards Christian. You have claimed multiple times Jesus was created by God, you present a path to salvation by following the " golden rule " which is not biblical......why are you here?

You have not considered on point of biblical truth presented to you. You offer in return things you have made up.

You need to find a Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, or many other Lordship salvation based churches and learn of the one true God. Find a local church and go with open mind and heart to learn. If you are sincerely search and learning.....then find a Godly man to teach you the way. To disciple you. To help you understand Scripture. Combining religions will not lead to Heaven. There is only on way to Heaven. We don't get to make up our own path to Heaven. We do not get to say, I have been given divine revelation on an alternative route to Heaven. Jesus is the way. Not the Jesus who has been created, but the Jesus that has always been. The triune God has always been. Not part has ever been created.

 

[Don]

Thank you. Through wisdom,through God we can help. Christ was the perfect human. The only one that will ever be. This is only possible through God's majesty. This must be spread for the sake of existence. Thank you again. I have trouble with words. You are to help as all with true wisdom are.

Let me not be proud for you and the Lord just showed me.

We must let our blessing/ gift that all may attain help others.

Good luck.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

Pops, you still leave me with questions. I don't believe Jesus was a perfect human; I believe He was God made flesh. I don't believe it was through God's majesty; because He is God, it's His majesty.

Does that make sense?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pops, you still leave me with questions. I don't believe Jesus was a perfect human; I believe He was God made flesh. I don't believe it was through God's majesty; because He is God, it's His majesty.

Does that make sense?

Yes. It makes sense. However, within translation lies confusion. This is intentional. Please don't take me the wrong way. Give me a few minutes. I just watched a video of a guy that explained my whole view in like 3 minutes. It was the first time I watched any of his videos because I am leary of some kinds of input. I will post a link to said video as soon as I can.
Please be patient and open. Thank you.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[Don]

Not to be troublesome; but I have rural internet, and can't really do video. If there's a transcript or other written record, that would work better for me.

 

[JonC]

Thank you as well for the conversation. There are a few things that I would like to address but before I will simply make some observations:

I don't need you to dumb anything down for me, so please refrain, if you would.
The doctrine of Islam is Damn near identical to Christianity. It is pretty much interchangeable.

You do need someone to “dumb it down for you” if you stand behind your statement here. Islam does not hold that Jesus is eternally God, that it is through Him that everything was created. Christianity does. But more to the point, Islam denies the resurrection of an eternally divine Christ from the dead. They do see Jesus as a prophet, but central to Christianity is a different Christology. Jesus is not our prophet, he is our Savior, the One to whom the prophets pointed.

Ok. So Christ is the son of God. Muslims refer to him as the perfect messenger. Either way he returned to the Lord from which he came upon death. The Lord he came from is the same Lord that is his "father" the God of the Old Testament. Say Christ is God. It's the same thing as saying he returned to God.

Saying Christ is God is not the same thing as saying he returned to God. That is a foolish claim.

Christ as a human was a perfect example of what a human could be. There will never be another. However surely you don't worship a man so you must be talking about Christ after the resurrection which is the same as God.

Again, this represents complete ignorance of Christianity. Christ was worshiped while on this earth (both in the New and Old Testaments, BTW).

To all who believed... exactly. Not all Christian, or Jews, or Muslims. Just all. Did you catch that?

Yet the Bible will say that all who believed were added to the Church, not the Mosque (granted, Islam wasn’t invented when those words were penned). But you ignore the object of faith here.

Dude. You said that John1:1 statd that God was Christ. It clearly did not.

Actually, it clearly does. “Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.” In the beginning was the λόγος….and what? “Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.” John is not the only place where Jesus is said to be God. He claimed to be God while he walked among the disciples (which kinda throws your “he is God when he returned to God” theory out the window.

I have not really scratched the surface of what you’ve stated here. But I don’t see a need to go deeper to show that you depart from the Bible and merely take things from Scripture and adding them to your faith. Thomas Jefferson did the same (although I think when you are done your “bible” may be more colorful than his…his ended with Christ in the tomb).

 

[popsthebuilder]

Not to be troublesome; but I have rural internet, and can't really do video. If there's a transcript or other written record, that would work better for me.

https://youtu.be/1R8ni2D14XE


So this is a video, but there is a description if you click on the title.

I cannot speak for this man's credibility. This is the only video I have watched from him. The source that I got this info from does seem somewhat credible though.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[popsthebuilder]

Thank you as well for the conversation. There are a few things that I would like to address but before I will simply make some observations:


You do need someone to “dumb it down for you” if you stand behind your statement here. Islam does not hold that Jesus is eternally God, that it is through Him that everything was created. Christianity does. But more to the point, Islam denies the resurrection of an eternally divine Christ from the dead. They do see Jesus as a prophet, but central to Christianity is a different Christology. Jesus is not our prophet, he is our Savior, the One to whom the prophets pointed.


Saying Christ is God is not the same thing as saying he returned to God. That is a foolish claim.

Again, this represents complete ignorance of Christianity. Christ was worshiped while on this earth (both in the New and Old Testaments, BTW).

Yet the Bible will say that all who believed were added to the Church, not the Mosque (granted, Islam wasn’t invented when those words were penned). But you ignore the object of faith here.
Actually, it clearly does. “Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.” In the beginning was the λόγος….and what? “Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.” John is not the only place where Jesus is said to be God. He claimed to be God while he walked among the disciples (which kinda throws your “he is God when he returned to God” theory out the window.

I have not really scratched the surface of what you’ve stated here. But I don’t see a need to go deeper to show that you depart from the Bible and merely take things from Scripture and adding them to your faith. Thomas Jefferson did the same (although I think when you are done your “bible” may be more colorful than his…his ended with Christ in the tomb).

A place of salvation and worship is a church/ Mosque.

Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[JonC]

A place of salvation and worship is a church/ Mosque.

That passage was written centuries before the invention of Islam. But more to the point, it was written before churches met in dedicated buildings. They were added to the Church as in the Body of Christ.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I don't know what you are talking about.

A place of sanctuary, safety, worship, gatheing in Faith .

Church (building) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia › wiki › Church_(building)

Mobile-friendly -*A*church*building, often simply called a*church, is a building used for religious activities, particularly worship services. The term in its architectural sense is most often used by Christians to refer to their religious buildings; they can be used by other religions.

mosque

mäsk/

noun

a Muslim place of worship.




Faith in selfless Unity through Good

 

[JonC]

I don't know what you are talking about.

A place of sanctuary, safety, worship, gatheing in Faith .

Church (building) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia › wiki › Church_(building)

Mobile-friendly -*A*church*building, often simply called a*church, is a building used for religious activities, particularly worship services. The term in its architectural sense is most often used by Christians to refer to their religious buildings; they can be used by other religions.

mosque

mäsk/

noun

a Muslim place of worship.




Faith in selfless Unity through Good

ἐκκλησία (ecclesia) is the word that we translate "church." It refers to a people called out (it divides, groups together a people for a specific purpose). In ancient times you could have different types of ἐκκλησία. It may be a group separated, for example, for a science. But in the New Testament the ἐκκλησία is identified with Christ (the Church of Christ). These are people separated by their faith and identity in Christ. In Scripture, the Church is never a building.

 

[popsthebuilder]

To put it bluntly Sir, you speak of division indeed. The RCC will unite with one other currupt party. I'll give you a hint. It's not true Christians.

You will be one of The two headed beast it seams. Tell me, for I am ignorant. Does our text tell of how wins this war?


Faith in selfless Unity through Good