adisciplinedlearner
New Member
I did not refer to myself as a Disciple of Christ, but as a disciple of Christ. Christ's "Great Commission" was a charge to make disciples in the latter sense.
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Christ's Church
- Thread starter adisciplinedlearner
- Start date
Tom Butler
New Member
"Dr. Walter" is a friend of mine. He knows that I believe a true New Covenant Christian is a person who has repented, believed, and confessed Christ in baptism by immersion in water. He does not agree with me, but that is OK with me.
Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with this. Dr. Walter, others and I disagree with your concept of Christ's church and baptism, but this is a friendly discussion among brothers.
I do not deny that denominational churches have within their respective memberships people who are members of Christ and members one of another. I do deny that denominational churches are true churches of Christ. Denominational churches are ecclesiastical Babylon, and God's people have it as their duty to leave these man-made bodies.
Let me guess...
YOUR group is NOT a denomination :laugh: and YOUR group DOES have a 100% regenerate membership!:laugh: :laugh::laugh:
Please...PLEASE come back to reality. Things will go much better for you if you do.
I have an idea: One of ya'll start playing a piano and singing. If this guy's ears bleed, he's CofC.
Dr. Walter
New Member
I have an idea: One of ya'll start playing a piano and singing. If this guy's ears bleed, he's CofC.
He is not the conventional CofC although he embraces much of their teaching. He is an admirer of Alexander Campbell and his writings but the truth is that as far as I am aware he fellowships with no church or denomination but the one in his own house and the one in his imagination.
Do you believe anyone can be a true Christian and not be immersed in water? For example, can unbaptized, sprinkled or poured persons be recognized as true Christians?
GE:
I answer out of turn I know; but this one I can't let pass....
My answer is, Yes, one must believe anyone can be a true Christian and not be immersed in water if he confess Christ his Saviour. If he really believed in Christ is for God to decide; no one has the right to doubt another's confession of Christ were he the greatest of sinners OR BAPTISED OR NOT. The only thing we humans and fellow sinners of all sinners may TRY to judge or test another's confession by, is the Scriptures. One example: If a person say he believe Jesus is his Saviour but deny Jesus' Divinity, I for one, will not believe him, his confession or his honesty and character. Maybe that sounds judgmental to some. But I shall not make the same damning conclusion if a person say Jesus is his Saviour but he is not baptised or did not believe one must be baptised in order to be saved.
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Dr. Walter
New Member
GE:
I answer out of turn I know; but this one I can't let pass....
My answer is, Yes, one must believe anyone can be a true Christian and not be immersed in water if he confess Christ his Saviour. If he really believed in Christ is for God to decide; no one has the right to doubt another's confession of Christ were he the greatest of sinners OR BAPTISED OR NOT. The only thing we humans and fellow sinners of all sinners may TRY to judge or test another's confession by, is the Scriptures. One example: If a person say he believe Jesus is his Saviour but deny Jesus' Divinity, I for one, will not believe him, his confession or his honesty and character. Maybe that sounds judgmental to some. But I shall not make the same damning conclusion if a person say Jesus is his Saviour but he is not baptised or did not believe one must be baptised in order to be saved.
I certainly agree with you Gerhard but does "adisciplelearner"?
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
Denominationalism practically denies the oneness of Christ's true church and body. Since all true Christians are members of Christ and members one of another, their unity is to be made manifest in a practical way. "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (Jn. 13:35). "That they all may be one: as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME" (Jn. 17:21).
How many here have been talking about denominationalism?Denominationalism practically denies the oneness of Christ's true church and body. Since all true Christians are members of Christ and members one of another, their unity is to be made manifest in a practical way. "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (Jn. 13:35). "That they all may be one: as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME" (Jn. 17:21).
I am against the individual who fails to identify himself. I count that individual as dishonest. He has something to hide and will not reveal it. He has a hidden agenda.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
I have already identified myself as a Christian or a disciple of Christ. Is this not enough? I honestly have no hidden agenda or ulterior motive. I love both God and man, and I seriously attempt to practice the "Golden Rule" of our Master in my interactions with all other people. Do I have to identify myself by a denominational label in order to fellowship with other Christians around God's holy word?
There are many undenominational Christians in the world today, and many of them are striving to be predenominational. They are neither Catholic nor Protestant, and they desire to return to original New Testament Christianity.
There are many undenominational Christians in the world today, and many of them are striving to be predenominational. They are neither Catholic nor Protestant, and they desire to return to original New Testament Christianity.
Dr. Walter
New Member
I have already identified myself as a Christian or a disciple of Christ. Is this not enough? I honestly have no hidden agenda or ulterior motive. I love both God and man, and I seriously attempt to practice the "Golden Rule" of our Master in my interactions with all other people. Do I have to identify myself by a denominational label in order to fellowship with other Christians around God's holy word?
There are many undenominational Christians in the world today, and many of them are striving to be predenominational. They are neither Catholic nor Protestant, and they desire to return to original New Testament Christianity.
Do you accept anyone to be a "Christian" who is not immersed in water? Do you accept persons as Christian who have been "sprinkled" or "poured" as adult believers? Are these the "Christians" you wish to "fellowship with" around God's Word because many on this particular forum have not been immersed in water or sprinkled and poured as adults but as infants. If you don't answer these questions with a direct yes or no then obviously you do have an agenda.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
As I understand the New Testament, a New Covenant Christian is a person who has repented, believed, and confessed Christ in baptism by immersion. Christ's church consists of such persons.
As I understand the New Testament, a New Covenant Christian is a person who has repented, believed, and confessed Christ in baptism by immersion. Christ's church consists of such persons.
So are we to conclude that not only do you believe baptism is necessary for salvation but that only baptism by immersion is a valid baptism?
That is what I conclude from your above post.
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.I have already identified myself as a Christian or a disciple of Christ. Is this not enough? I honestly have no hidden agenda or ulterior motive. I love both God and man, and I seriously attempt to practice the "Golden Rule" of our Master in my interactions with all other people. Do I have to identify myself by a denominational label in order to fellowship with other Christians around God's holy word?
There are many undenominational Christians in the world today, and many of them are striving to be predenominational. They are neither Catholic nor Protestant, and they desire to return to original New Testament Christianity.
These were most honest than you are.
They were the Christians of the church at Antioch.
Their home church was Antioch, not "house church." At least they identified who they were.
The same was true with others.
Acts 12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.
What church was praying? The universal church? The church made of all baptized believers? The church world wide? What church?
Acts 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.
--The "church" was gathered at the house of Mary, the mother of John whose surname was Mark. Do you think all believers worldwide were there? Are you that naive?
Romans 16:3-5 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
--Paul gives greetings to Priscilla and Aquilla and to the church that is in their house.
Note that the church in John Mark's mother's home was in Jerusalem.
The church in the house of Priscilla and Aquilla was in Rome.
All believers were not in the same church. They did have different meeting places, specific meeting places, places of worship. These churches are assemblies properly called, which the Greek word ekklesia means.
IMO opinion it is not enough. You filled out your registration. Their was a field for denomination which you avoided. There was a field for church which you avoided. Then when it came time to press the button "I agree" you did, knowing full well that you had not filled out the profile correctly. If that is not dishonesty what is?
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adisciplinedlearner
New Member
I believe baptism is one necessary condition for salvation, but I cannot say if it is an absolutely necessary condition. I am only prepared to say that a New Covenant Christian is a repentant, believing, immersed disciple of Christ (because this is what I find in the New Testament itself), and I leave all others in God's hands.
I am convinced that New Covenant baptism is always by immersion. If God counts other modes as baptism, that is His prerogative. I am not His judge.
I am convinced that New Covenant baptism is always by immersion. If God counts other modes as baptism, that is His prerogative. I am not His judge.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
There is an important difference between "the church at Antioch" and "the Antioch church." "The church at Antioch" was the members of the Lord's one true church and body who lived in Antioch. It was the Christians at Antioch. "The Antioch church" would refer to a different kind of church than the Lord's one true church and body, and there are not two kinds of churches of Christ.
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
If I filled out a form incorrectly, it must have been because none of the choices applied to me. I was not trying to be dishonest in any way at all.
I disagree. The First Baptist Church at Jerusalem had an actual membership roll with names.There is an important difference between "the church at Antioch" and "the Antioch church." "The church at Antioch" was the members of the Lord's one true church and body who lived in Antioch. It was the Christians at Antioch. "The Antioch church" would refer to a different kind of church than the Lord's one true church and body, and there are not two kinds of churches of Christ.
Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
--It doesn't say the number of men or people, or men and women. It says the number of names indicating a means of keeping track in this church (the one in Jerusalem) of who was a member and who was not.
I believe baptism is one necessary condition for salvation, but I cannot say if it is an absolutely necessary condition. I am only prepared to say that a New Covenant Christian is a repentant, believing, immersed disciple of Christ (because this is what I find in the New Testament itself), and I leave all others in God's hands.
I am convinced that New Covenant baptism is always by immersion. If God counts other modes as baptism, that is His prerogative. I am not His judge.
I appreciate the clarification, thanks!
adisciplinedlearner
New Member
From the Day of Pentecost forward, all true Christians in New Testament times were members of Christ and members one of another. This means that they were all members of Christ's one true church and body, which began on the Day of Pentecost.
That is an unsubstantiated opinion which cannot be verified in Scripture. It is unbiblical.From the Day of Pentecost forward, all true Christians in New Testament times were members of Christ and members one of another. This means that they were all members of Christ's one true church and body, which began on the Day of Pentecost.