church of Christ

[OldRegular]

Original post by OldRegular
I believe that if you would spend some time, weeks not minutes, studying the prayer of Jesus Christ for His Church [John 17] you might have a life changing event. Then go to John 6 and spend some time there. You will learn that when God saves someone they are saved eternally and will spend eternity with Him.

I might, that is of course if I am elected to be saved and if the Holy Spirit will work on my heart before generation so that i can understand the word and so God can repent and believe for me. Oh wait, wrong doctrine, sorry.

No you are not sorry! Your facetious response that God repents and believes for you borders on Blasphemy!

 

[annsni]

I might, that is of course if I am elected to be saved and if the Holy Spirit will work on my heart before generation so that i can understand the word and so God can repent and believe for me. Oh wait, wrong doctrine, sorry.

That's certainly not any doctrine *I've* ever heard before! What do you call that??

 

[MorganT]

That's certainly not any doctrine *I've* ever heard before! What do you call that??

I call that someone that has gotten upset because they have been shown with scripture that they are wrong but they just cant let go of there doctrine that they have been taught.

He still cant explain Acts 10 below and is avoiding it like the plague and Im still waiting for an answer from him

Act 10:47-48 Can anyone forbid water that these, who have received the Holy Ghost as well as we, should not be baptized? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they begged him to stay certain days.

Tell me how these lost souls "according to you" had received the Holy Ghost without being saved. When you can show me that, we can move on. I didnt realize that lost people received the Holy Ghost, this is new to me, so since you say that a lost person can receive the Holy Ghost could you please support that claim with scripture. These people had not been baptized however they were saved and Im showing you this with scripture not something that Im just saying or feeling so come on, the proof is right there in front of you. Faith is all it takes to be saved, however YES WE SHOULD GET BAPTIZED but its not essential to salvation.

 

[DHK]

I have never read a passage that says we trust the Lord and Saviour, where is that passage?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

Acts 5:30-32 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Do you set a higher standard for us than you set for yourself? I quote Scripture and put it into my own words by way of explanation. Then you question it and say you never found it in Scripture.
OTOH, you quote Scripture and explain what is not found in Scripture! Quite hypocritical isn't it?

That is where we split hairs, It is impossible to be saved by what some call their faith alone.

An honest study of Ephesians 2:8,9 will result in the conclusion of salvation by faith and faith alone. No other conclusion is possible.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You have not been baptized according to scripture so your obedience was never there and you still deny the purpose of baptism and even repentance.

According to this statement you view salvation no different than a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or any other religion of the world. You view salvation as a religion of works. Every Muslim must try and work their way to heaven, and even then there is no guarantee. You say the same thing. Why not just be a Muslim? There is not much difference in essence.

As for me, I knew the day I put my trust in Christ, and His work on the cross, that He gave me eternal life; that He forgave all my sins: past, present, and future; that if I died in that same moment I would go straight to heaven though I had not been baptized. I know that beyond any shadow of a doubt.
Your denial of what I know is based only on your ignorance of the truth of the Scriptures.
Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures neither the power of God.

You ask me to tell you if you would have gone to heaven during that two months or two years not sure which one, doesn't really matter, no. I still do not think your going to heaven.

This answer sounds eerily familiar to another COC that was here before.
I can understand if you were to say that you didn't think I was saved for those two years. But that was over 30 years ago. And now you accuse me of still not being saved. You, with that accusation, stand on shaky ground.

The water does not have some special power, Christ saves you. His blood is what cleanses us from sin, It is as if you were buried with Him in faith alone, that you contacted His blood through your own subjective faith alone.

If you believed what you just posted, then baptism wouldn't be necessary would it?
1. "Water does not have some special power." Good, then no need to baptize as a requirement for salvation.
2. "Christ saves you." Good, then no need to baptize as a requirement for salvation.
3. "His blood is what cleanses us from sin." Good, then no need to baptize as a requirement for salvation.
4. "It is as if you were buried with Him in faith alone." Never mind the rest of the statement. In baptism (which occurs after salvation), it is a symbolic picture of one who is buried with Christ. It is a picture and that is all. Thus baptism is not required for salvation. You have demonstrated that in this part of your own post.

What passage connects us with His blood? I am intersted to find a passage that says we believe into Christ and His shedd blood.

You won't find it. We are baptized into H2O. His blood was shed on the cross 2000 years ago. It then gave in to the elements of the earth in a process of decay and degeneration, and the Second Law of Thermodynamics continued on just as God ordained it.

 

[MorganT]

Im still having a big problem with requiring one to be baptized to be saved, but then you can lose that salvation and not have to be rebatized. If according to the Church of Christ it takes one to be baptized to be saved then its only logical to believe that if you could lose that salvation and be in a LOST state again that it would take a rebaptizm to be resaved. Im so confused, I mean its almost like they make the rules up as they go. JSM17 could you please show me some scripture to back up your claim as to why you dont have to be rebaptized after your LOST, UNCLEAN, UNSAVED. I just dont get it. My foot is patting and IM waiting. :tonofbricks:

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Nowhere in NT saying that if a person turn away from the Lord, and to repent again, get get right with the Lord, and need to be re-baptize again. NT teaches us that baptism is a one time event in lifetime, like Christ died at once, risen at once. Bible emphasis us that we must repent of our sins and stay faithful to the Lord, like Luke 15:11-32 of prodigal son. He was dead, but now aligve again, this speaking of repent. A person don't have to be re-baptize, but need straight out with the Lord with repent. Or, if a person stay in sins without repentance, person is on the way to destruction.

Luke 15:11-32 telling us, if suppose a son remain in dark and sins, and never return back to his father, he would have been lost and dead, it means his spiritually is death is on the way to destruction - hell. Unless he repents same with us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[JSM17]

Luke 15:21-24---The father was overjoyed that his prodigal son returned.


When we meet God’s conditions for salvation, we become “born-again.” Because we are born again, we are adopted as God’s children.

If the parable of the prodigal son means anything, it is that a son cannot cease to become a son. We may become rebellious sons, but when we are born-again, we cannot become unborn-again.

The proof of the above statement is the lack of examples of re-baptism in the scriptures. No matter how long a Christian has wandered away from God, he can always come back without being re-baptized.

 

[DHK]

Luke 15:21-24---The father was overjoyed that his prodigal son returned.


When we meet God’s conditions for salvation, we become “born-again.” Because we are born again, we are adopted as God’s children.

There are no conditions for salvation. If there are then your salvation is no different than that of a Muslim or a Hindu.
But it is Christ that saves not conditions that we meet. His salvation is unconditional. The object of our faith is Christ. It is Christ that saves, and Him alone. He saves us because He shed his blood to make an atonement for our sins--paying the penalty that we could not pay. If we but accept that payment, by faith, we will receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Salvation, therefore is not of works, is unconditional, is a gift of God, and cannot be conditioned by works.

 

[OldRegular]

Nowhere in NT saying that if a person turn away from the Lord, and to repent again, get get right with the Lord, and need to be re-baptize again. NT teaches us that baptism is a one time event in lifetime, like Christ died at once, risen at once. Bible emphasis us that we must repent of our sins and stay faithful to the Lord, like Luke 15:11-32 of prodigal son. He was dead, but now aligve again, this speaking of repent. A person don't have to be re-baptize, but need straight out with the Lord with repent. Or, if a person stay in sins without repentance, person is on the way to destruction.

Luke 15:11-32 telling us, if suppose a son remain in dark and sins, and never return back to his father, he would have been lost and dead, it means his spiritually is death is on the way to destruction - hell. Unless he repents same with us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

You need to defend this with Scripture.

 

[OldRegular]

If the parable of the prodigal son means anything, it is that a son cannot cease to become a son. We may become rebellious sons, but when we are born-again, we cannot become unborn-again.

I agree that once a person becomes a child of God he is a child eternally and shall spend eternity in the presence of God. However, the above statement is not consistent with COC doctrine or with your previous statements.

You need to decide what you believe about salvation. From the above statement it appears you are waffling.

Furthermore you have failed to answer mine and MorganT's question about rebaptism.

 

[TCGreek]

This answer sounds eerily familiar to another COC that was here before.
I can understand if you were to say that you didn't think I was saved for those two years. But that was over 30 years ago. And now you accuse me of still not being saved. You, with that accusation, stand on shaky ground.

In previous posts, he tried to distant himself from some COC, but his doctrine of salvation tells it all: he remains traditional COC.

He employs the same old arguments as all other COCers.

They simply cannot accept that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone.

They have to try and get water baptism in somehow.

 

[Darron Steele]

Luke 15:21-24---The father was overjoyed that his prodigal son returned.


When we meet God’s conditions for salvation, we become “born-again.” ...

That should be "condition" -- singular.

This has been shown from the Scriptures.

 

[MorganT]

Nowhere in NT saying that if a person turn away from the Lord, and to repent again, get get right with the Lord, and need to be re-baptize again. NT teaches us that baptism is a one time event in lifetime, like Christ died at once, risen at once. Bible emphasis us that we must repent of our sins and stay faithful to the Lord, like Luke 15:11-32 of prodigal son. He was dead, but now aligve again, this speaking of repent. A person don't have to be re-baptize, but need straight out with the Lord with repent. Or, if a person stay in sins without repentance, person is on the way to destruction.

Luke 15:11-32 telling us, if suppose a son remain in dark and sins, and never return back to his father, he would have been lost and dead, it means his spiritually is death is on the way to destruction - hell. Unless he repents same with us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Now wait a minute, according to you a person that is LOST, UNCLEAN, UNSAVED, MUST be baptized and then you go and tell me that you can lose your salvation but after you become LOST, UNCLEAN, UNSAVED, the second time then you dont need to be baptized. IM CONFUSED

Either you are eternally secure, as I believe or
Your doctrine makes no sense as YOU Believe

You say that a person MUST
Hear
Believe
Repent
Confess
and Be Baptized in order to be saved
and then you tell me that you can lose your salvation after you are saved but you dont have to go thru the same steps to be saved again. Its so confusing.

I THINK YOU ARE WRONG in your doctrine

Joh 3:31-36 He who comes from above is above all; he who is from the earth is earthly and speaks from the earth. He who comes from Heaven is above all, (32) and what He has seen and heard, that He testifies, and no one receives His testimony. (33) He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. (34) For He whom God has sent speaks the Words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. (35) The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. (36) He who believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him.


:tonofbricks:

 

[JSM17]

They simply cannot accept that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone.

They have to try and get water baptism in somehow.

Syllogism Number One:
1. All Spiritual Blessings are in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to spiritual blessings.
Syllogism Number Two:
1. Redemption is in Christ. (Ephesians 1:7)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be redeemed.
Syllogism Number Three:1. Forgiveness of sins is in Christ (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get forgiveness of sins.
Syllogism Number Four:
1. Inheritance is in Christ (Ephesians 1:11)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to the inheritance.
Syllogism Number Five:
1. One is reconciled to God in Christ (Romans 2:16; Colossians 1:20)
2. But baptism puts one into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be reconciled to God.
Syllogism Number Six:
1. One is a new creature when in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be a new creature in Christ Jesus.
Syllogism Number Seven:1. Christ's blood was shed in his death. (John 19:33-34)
2. But we are baptized into Christ's death. (Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we are baptized to get to Christ's blood.
Syllogism Number Eight:
1. Only Christ's blood can cleanse our sins. (1 John 1:7)
2. But we must be baptized to get to the blood. (John 19:33-34; Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get to the blood to be cleansed from sins.
Syllogism Number Nine:
1. Salvation is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:10)
2. But we must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get into Salvation.
Syllogism Number Ten:1. Salvation is in the name. (Acts 4:11-12)
2. But we are baptized into the Name. (Matthew 28:19)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Eleven:
1. Salvation is in the body, or church. (Ephesians 5:23)
2. But we are baptized into the body. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Twelve:
1. We are saved by Grace (Ephesians 2:8).
2. But Grace is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:1).
3. We are Baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
4. Therefore, baptism is essential to grace, which saves.
Syllogism Number Thirteen:
1. Those who work righteousness are acceptable to God (Acts 10:34-35).
2. But God's commandments are righteousness (Psalms 119:172).
3. Therefore, one must obey God's commands to be accepted of Him.
Syllogism Number Fourteen:1. One must obey God's commands to be acceptable to Him.
2. Baptism is a command of God. (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 22:16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be acceptable to God.
Syllogism Number Fifteen:1. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-24).
2. Baptism is a work of righteousness (Obedience to God's righteousness command).
3. Therefore, faith without baptism, a work of righteousness, is dead.
Syllogism Number Sixteen:1. Baptism is a command (Acts 10:48).
2. One must do the commandments to enter into the city (Revelation 22:14).
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to entering into the city.
Syllogism Number Seventeen:1. One must do the will of God to enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21).
2. It is God's will that we hear (obey) Christ.
3. Christ commanded baptism (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16).
4. Therefore, one must be baptized to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Syllogism Number Eighteen:1. Christ saves them that obey Him (Hebrews 5:8-9).
2. Christ commands baptism (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be saved.
Syllogism Number Nineteen:
1. Paul was baptized to wash away his sins (Acts 22:16).
2. He said for us to follow him (2 Thessalonians 3:7-9).
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to wash away our sins.
Syllogism Number Twenty:1. Paul said we were baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
2. He said if any preached any other gospel to let him be accursed (Galatians 1:6-9).
3. Therefore, he is accursed who say we are not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-One:1. Blood of Christ is point of union between sinner and Christ (Revelation 1:5; Ephesians 1:9; 2:13; Romans 3:25; 5:19).
2. Christ shed his blood in his death (Romans 4:8, 9; Ephesians 2:13).
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
4. Therefore, we are united with Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Two:1. We are planted together ("united with him"--A.S.V.) in the likeness of his death (Romans 6:5)
2. But the likeness of his death is in our baptism (Romans 6:4).
3. Therefore, we are united with him in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Three:1. We are sinners without Christ's death (Romans 5:8).
2. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we are sinners without being baptized.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Four:
1. If without Christ, have no hope and without God (Ephesians 2:12).
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we have no hope and are without God if not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Five:1. All spiritual blessings are in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) -- None outside Christ..
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, baptism into Christ is necessary to have all spiritual blessings, or
4. There are no spiritual blessings without baptism into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Six:
1. Made free from sin by obeying form of doctrine (Romans 6:17, 18).
2. The doctrine delivered was D.B.R. [the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ, hss] (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
3. But the "form" of that doctrine was baptism (Romans 6:3-5).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to freedom from sin.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Seven:1. Reconciled--"made nigh"--by the blood (Ephesians 2:13).
2. Reconciled in one body--The Church (Ephesians 2:16).
3. But we are baptized into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to reconciliation by the blood.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Eight
1. Justified by Christ's blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Reconciled by Christ's death on cross where blood was shed (Ephesians 2:16)
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3)
4. Therefore, we are justified by his blood in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Nine:1. Justified by the blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6.8)
3. But the ungodly are baptized into the death of Christ (Romans 6:1-3)
4. Therefore, the ungodly are justified by the blood of Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty:1. Circumcision of the heart is to put off the body of sins of the flesh (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11).
2. But this circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, the body of the sins of the flesh is put off in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-one:1. We are forgiven when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are forgiven all trespasses in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-two:1. Circumcision of the heart is an operation of God (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:12).
2. But this operation of God takes place when we are buried and raised with Christ in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism, but
4. Circumcision of the heart removes sin (Colossians 2:11).
5. Therefore, sins are removed in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-three:
1. There is no removal of sin without faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12).
2. But the operation of God takes places in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, there is no removal of sin without baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-four:1. We are "quickened together with him"--made alive with him--when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are quickened together with him--made alive with him--in baptism.

 

[annsni]

Syllogism Number One:
1. All Spiritual Blessings are in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to spiritual blessings.
Syllogism Number Two:
1. Redemption is in Christ. (Ephesians 1:7)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be redeemed.
Syllogism Number Three:1. Forgiveness of sins is in Christ (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get forgiveness of sins.
Syllogism Number Four:
1. Inheritance is in Christ (Ephesians 1:11)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to the inheritance.
Syllogism Number Five:
1. One is reconciled to God in Christ (Romans 2:16; Colossians 1:20)
2. But baptism puts one into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be reconciled to God.
Syllogism Number Six:
1. One is a new creature when in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be a new creature in Christ Jesus.
Syllogism Number Seven:1. Christ's blood was shed in his death. (John 19:33-34)
2. But we are baptized into Christ's death. (Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we are baptized to get to Christ's blood.
Syllogism Number Eight:
1. Only Christ's blood can cleanse our sins. (1 John 1:7)
2. But we must be baptized to get to the blood. (John 19:33-34; Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get to the blood to be cleansed from sins.
Syllogism Number Nine:
1. Salvation is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:10)
2. But we must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get into Salvation.
Syllogism Number Ten:1. Salvation is in the name. (Acts 4:11-12)
2. But we are baptized into the Name. (Matthew 28:19)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Eleven:
1. Salvation is in the body, or church. (Ephesians 5:23)
2. But we are baptized into the body. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Twelve:
1. We are saved by Grace (Ephesians 2:8).
2. But Grace is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:1).
3. We are Baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
4. Therefore, baptism is essential to grace, which saves.
Syllogism Number Thirteen:
1. Those who work righteousness are acceptable to God (Acts 10:34-35).
2. But God's commandments are righteousness (Psalms 119:172).
3. Therefore, one must obey God's commands to be accepted of Him.
Syllogism Number Fourteen:1. One must obey God's commands to be acceptable to Him.
2. Baptism is a command of God. (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 22:16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be acceptable to God.
Syllogism Number Fifteen:1. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-24).
2. Baptism is a work of righteousness (Obedience to God's righteousness command).
3. Therefore, faith without baptism, a work of righteousness, is dead.
Syllogism Number Sixteen:1. Baptism is a command (Acts 10:48).
2. One must do the commandments to enter into the city (Revelation 22:14).
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to entering into the city.
Syllogism Number Seventeen:1. One must do the will of God to enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21).
2. It is God's will that we hear (obey) Christ.
3. Christ commanded baptism (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16).
4. Therefore, one must be baptized to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Syllogism Number Eighteen:1. Christ saves them that obey Him (Hebrews 5:8-9).
2. Christ commands baptism (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be saved.
Syllogism Number Nineteen:
1. Paul was baptized to wash away his sins (Acts 22:16).
2. He said for us to follow him (2 Thessalonians 3:7-9).
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to wash away our sins.
Syllogism Number Twenty:1. Paul said we were baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
2. He said if any preached any other gospel to let him be accursed (Galatians 1:6-9).
3. Therefore, he is accursed who say we are not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-One:1. Blood of Christ is point of union between sinner and Christ (Revelation 1:5; Ephesians 1:9; 2:13; Romans 3:25; 5:19).
2. Christ shed his blood in his death (Romans 4:8, 9; Ephesians 2:13).
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
4. Therefore, we are united with Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Two:1. We are planted together ("united with him"--A.S.V.) in the likeness of his death (Romans 6:5)
2. But the likeness of his death is in our baptism (Romans 6:4).
3. Therefore, we are united with him in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Three:1. We are sinners without Christ's death (Romans 5:8).
2. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we are sinners without being baptized.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Four:
1. If without Christ, have no hope and without God (Ephesians 2:12).
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we have no hope and are without God if not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Five:1. All spiritual blessings are in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) -- None outside Christ..
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, baptism into Christ is necessary to have all spiritual blessings, or
4. There are no spiritual blessings without baptism into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Six:
1. Made free from sin by obeying form of doctrine (Romans 6:17, 18).
2. The doctrine delivered was D.B.R. [the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ, hss] (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
3. But the "form" of that doctrine was baptism (Romans 6:3-5).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to freedom from sin.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Seven:1. Reconciled--"made nigh"--by the blood (Ephesians 2:13).
2. Reconciled in one body--The Church (Ephesians 2:16).
3. But we are baptized into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to reconciliation by the blood.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Eight
1. Justified by Christ's blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Reconciled by Christ's death on cross where blood was shed (Ephesians 2:16)
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3)
4. Therefore, we are justified by his blood in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Nine:1. Justified by the blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6.8)
3. But the ungodly are baptized into the death of Christ (Romans 6:1-3)
4. Therefore, the ungodly are justified by the blood of Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty:1. Circumcision of the heart is to put off the body of sins of the flesh (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11).
2. But this circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, the body of the sins of the flesh is put off in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-one:1. We are forgiven when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are forgiven all trespasses in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-two:1. Circumcision of the heart is an operation of God (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:12).
2. But this operation of God takes place when we are buried and raised with Christ in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism, but
4. Circumcision of the heart removes sin (Colossians 2:11).
5. Therefore, sins are removed in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-three:
1. There is no removal of sin without faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12).
2. But the operation of God takes places in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, there is no removal of sin without baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-four:1. We are "quickened together with him"--made alive with him--when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are quickened together with him--made alive with him--in baptism.

What a great example of proof texting and applying very illogical conclusions to the Scriptures making it say what it does not.

I think I'm going to save this list as an example...

 

[MorganT]

I think its plain to see for most why I left the Church of Christ. You can show them over and over with scripture but they almost always revert to there teachings instead of what the word of God says in context. Maybe one day JSM17 eyes will be opened to the truth of the Word of God in CONTEXT. Its been fun JSM17 but we have shown you so many times with scripture in context that Im blue in the face and my daddy always told me that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

:tonofbricks:

 

[Darron Steele]

Syllogism Number One:
1. All Spiritual Blessings are in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to spiritual blessings.
...
Syllogism Number Thirty-four:1. We are "quickened together with him"--made alive with him--when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are quickened together with him--made alive with him--in baptism.

What a great example of proof texting and applying very illogical conclusions to the Scriptures making it say what it does not.

I think I'm going to save this list as an example...

These are called "inferences." Sometimes inferences are right, and sometimes they are not. Nonetheless, they are not things that Scripture states, as you observed. Problem is, some people do not distinguish between statements of Scripture and their inferences.

JSM17 and the Churches of Christ depend on inference to advance their position that unless someone arises from a baptism pool, they will not be saved. Scripture states no such thing, so they depend on inference.

Inference should never `trump' statements of Scripture. Acts 10:43 says of Jesus Christ "everyone that believeth on him |receives| remission of sins" (ASV|ESV|ASV).

 

[TCGreek]

Syllogism Number One:
1. All Spiritual Blessings are in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to spiritual blessings.
Syllogism Number Two:
1. Redemption is in Christ. (Ephesians 1:7)
2. But one is baptized into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be redeemed.
Syllogism Number Three:1. Forgiveness of sins is in Christ (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get forgiveness of sins.
Syllogism Number Four:
1. Inheritance is in Christ (Ephesians 1:11)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to get to the inheritance.
Syllogism Number Five:
1. One is reconciled to God in Christ (Romans 2:16; Colossians 1:20)
2. But baptism puts one into Christ (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be reconciled to God.
Syllogism Number Six:
1. One is a new creature when in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
2. But one must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be a new creature in Christ Jesus.
Syllogism Number Seven:1. Christ's blood was shed in his death. (John 19:33-34)
2. But we are baptized into Christ's death. (Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we are baptized to get to Christ's blood.
Syllogism Number Eight:
1. Only Christ's blood can cleanse our sins. (1 John 1:7)
2. But we must be baptized to get to the blood. (John 19:33-34; Romans 6:3-5)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get to the blood to be cleansed from sins.
Syllogism Number Nine:
1. Salvation is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:10)
2. But we must be baptized to get into Christ. (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27)
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to get into Salvation.
Syllogism Number Ten:1. Salvation is in the name. (Acts 4:11-12)
2. But we are baptized into the Name. (Matthew 28:19)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Eleven:
1. Salvation is in the body, or church. (Ephesians 5:23)
2. But we are baptized into the body. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to salvation.
Syllogism Number Twelve:
1. We are saved by Grace (Ephesians 2:8).
2. But Grace is in Christ (2 Timothy 2:1).
3. We are Baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
4. Therefore, baptism is essential to grace, which saves.
Syllogism Number Thirteen:
1. Those who work righteousness are acceptable to God (Acts 10:34-35).
2. But God's commandments are righteousness (Psalms 119:172).
3. Therefore, one must obey God's commands to be accepted of Him.
Syllogism Number Fourteen:1. One must obey God's commands to be acceptable to Him.
2. Baptism is a command of God. (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48; Acts 22:16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be acceptable to God.
Syllogism Number Fifteen:1. Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-24).
2. Baptism is a work of righteousness (Obedience to God's righteousness command).
3. Therefore, faith without baptism, a work of righteousness, is dead.
Syllogism Number Sixteen:1. Baptism is a command (Acts 10:48).
2. One must do the commandments to enter into the city (Revelation 22:14).
3. Therefore, baptism is essential to entering into the city.
Syllogism Number Seventeen:1. One must do the will of God to enter into the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21).
2. It is God's will that we hear (obey) Christ.
3. Christ commanded baptism (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16).
4. Therefore, one must be baptized to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Syllogism Number Eighteen:1. Christ saves them that obey Him (Hebrews 5:8-9).
2. Christ commands baptism (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16).
3. Therefore, one must be baptized to be saved.
Syllogism Number Nineteen:
1. Paul was baptized to wash away his sins (Acts 22:16).
2. He said for us to follow him (2 Thessalonians 3:7-9).
3. Therefore, we must be baptized to wash away our sins.
Syllogism Number Twenty:1. Paul said we were baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27).
2. He said if any preached any other gospel to let him be accursed (Galatians 1:6-9).
3. Therefore, he is accursed who say we are not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-One:1. Blood of Christ is point of union between sinner and Christ (Revelation 1:5; Ephesians 1:9; 2:13; Romans 3:25; 5:19).
2. Christ shed his blood in his death (Romans 4:8, 9; Ephesians 2:13).
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
4. Therefore, we are united with Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Two:1. We are planted together ("united with him"--A.S.V.) in the likeness of his death (Romans 6:5)
2. But the likeness of his death is in our baptism (Romans 6:4).
3. Therefore, we are united with him in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Three:1. We are sinners without Christ's death (Romans 5:8).
2. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we are sinners without being baptized.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Four:
1. If without Christ, have no hope and without God (Ephesians 2:12).
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, we have no hope and are without God if not baptized into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Five:1. All spiritual blessings are in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) -- None outside Christ..
2. But we are baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3).
3. Therefore, baptism into Christ is necessary to have all spiritual blessings, or
4. There are no spiritual blessings without baptism into Christ.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Six:
1. Made free from sin by obeying form of doctrine (Romans 6:17, 18).
2. The doctrine delivered was D.B.R. [the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ, hss] (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
3. But the "form" of that doctrine was baptism (Romans 6:3-5).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to freedom from sin.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Seven:1. Reconciled--"made nigh"--by the blood (Ephesians 2:13).
2. Reconciled in one body--The Church (Ephesians 2:16).
3. But we are baptized into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13).
4. Therefore, baptism is necessary to reconciliation by the blood.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Eight
1. Justified by Christ's blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Reconciled by Christ's death on cross where blood was shed (Ephesians 2:16)
3. But we are baptized into his death (Romans 6:3)
4. Therefore, we are justified by his blood in baptism.
Syllogism Number Twenty-Nine:1. Justified by the blood (Romans 5:9)
2. Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5:6.8)
3. But the ungodly are baptized into the death of Christ (Romans 6:1-3)
4. Therefore, the ungodly are justified by the blood of Christ in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty:1. Circumcision of the heart is to put off the body of sins of the flesh (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11).
2. But this circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, the body of the sins of the flesh is put off in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-one:1. We are forgiven when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are forgiven all trespasses in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-two:1. Circumcision of the heart is an operation of God (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:12).
2. But this operation of God takes place when we are buried and raised with Christ in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, circumcision of the heart takes place in baptism, but
4. Circumcision of the heart removes sin (Colossians 2:11).
5. Therefore, sins are removed in baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-three:
1. There is no removal of sin without faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12).
2. But the operation of God takes places in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, there is no removal of sin without baptism.
Syllogism Number Thirty-four:1. We are "quickened together with him"--made alive with him--when raised with him (Colossians 2:12, 13).
2. But we are raised with him in baptism (Colossians 2:12).
3. Therefore, we are quickened together with him--made alive with him--in baptism.

The Church of Christ Movement is a product of modernity, hence the logical formulas.

One of its pioneers in his earlier years, Alexander Campbell was sold on John Locke and Scottish Common Sense Reason.

Scripture is not about syllogisms. A person just needs to ask Job's three friends. And we know what happened to them. Don't we?

 

[OldRegular]

THE CONCEPT, OR DOCTRINE FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT, THAT ANY EXTERNAL ACT SUCH AS WATER BAPTISM IS REQUIRED FOR SALVATION REDUCES THE CHRISTIAN FAITH TO THE LEVEL OF PAGANISM.

 

[DHK]

My Syllogism:
All dogs have four legs.
My cat has four legs.
Therefore, My cat is a dog.

That is the reasoning I see here.