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Churches Rarely Reprimand Members
- Thread starter rlvaughn
- Start date
Maybe a whole lot of churches has no members that needed disciplining
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
My favorite pastor was IFB and he condemned sin from the pulpit knowing some in the congregation had involved themselves in sinful life styles. But he did it in love, provoking repentance. He showed great courage knowing his job hung in the balance every word he spoke.
Another favorite IFB Pastor I sat under stopped the service one sunday morning and called out a Doctor who pretty much bank-rolled the whole operation (no pun intended). He ran the church from his favorite pew. Being a Dr. people assumed he was smart enough to do that. That Pastor (named Claude, incase he reads this) walked out on nothing more that faith and courage. These guys were not lap dogs....
How about adultery? In my previous church, there was a man who cheated on his wife. We were a church that tried hard to offer good pastoral care to our members. Members of the church first tried to reach out to him and he refused. Finally, the elders contacted him to call him to repentance. He rejected all attempts and we had to put him out.
Agreed: Hear no evil, see no evil, no repentance called for! Besides, the money source is not threatened.
The only first-hand experience of church discipline I had involved a teenage girl, Deacons daughter, who got impregnated twice, while unmarried. On the second go-round, she was removed from church membership.
I can speak from previous experience if you don't discipline in your church like the scriptures emphatically teach, the Lord will discipline for you... You think maybe the reason some of the churches are the way they are today is because lack of discipline?... I do... And in my lifetime I've see church split because the lack of it... Some members of the church are so prideful to forgive another one... In our church during the church meeting The Primitive Baptist would have a practice to call for acknowledgements... If a brother or sister felt they had offended another one and wanted to state it publically, here was the place to do it... What we all seems to forget is we ALL walk with feet of clay... We are not perfect by a long shot... 16% not surprising but horrid, and we call ourselves followers of Christ... And I'm not perfect too, and shall take my portion of what I dish out... I've been amiss many times but remember Jesus words to Peter on forgiveness and isn't it more of a blessing to go to a member and ask for forgiveness as the scriptures teach?... I think it is!... Discipline and forgiveness go hand in hand... Brother Glen
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
The Baptist News Global article, where I first saw the survey referenced, mentioned heresy and co-habitation.
If we discipline children in our natural famliy, why does it seem strange to discipline children in the family of God... I disagree that it is up to the pastor and deacons... Discipline involves the whole church... Maybe that is the reason for low attendance in churches, lack of discipline... Is your practice at home and your practice at church the same?... Remember our children are watching!... Brother Glen
Good post Brother Robert
PastoralMusings
Active Member
Sometimes pastors teach and preach discipline, yet the church simply will not exercise discipline. Sometimes it is because of it being a family member who needs to be called to repentance. At other times it is because a deacon cheated on his wife decades ago and never dealt with that sin in godly repentance.
Sadly this shows a lack of love for Christ and a lack of love for those who need discipline.
Sadly this shows a lack of love for Christ and a lack of love for those who need discipline.
I remember a preacher who had preached over 60 years... He said when he preaches Salvation by Grace, there is shouting's of hallelujah's and amens but as soon as he starts preaching what our Christian duty is, he will here a comment from the congregation... He's gone from preaching to meddling... Brother Glen
Oh I don’t know, you must have a very cohesive family style church in order to even think of discipline. And it’s got to be fair and loving. How many of thes disciplining pastors really understands the fellow they are attempting to discipline?
I view discipline much like stoning. Let the one who is sinless throw the 1st stone.
Church discipline is actually an act of grace. Church discipline actually starts on the individual Christian level when one brother goes to another brother and lovingly confronts them. Often times the issue is dealt with and ends there. We are used to thinking of church discipline when it escalates up to the elders, the pastor, and then to the entire congregation. It is grace and love for the individual that is the motivation behind church discipline:
James 5:19-20 19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Failure to practice biblical church discipline is actually a sign that a church lacks love and care for its members. Is a member living in adultery? So what? A public drunkard and wife beater? Not my problem. Teaching heresy in a bible study? Hear no evil, see no evil. Lying and/or gossiping about others in the church? Not a problem, so long as it is not about me.
Are their abuses in exercising church discipline? Of course! However, abuses do not nullify the thing itself, they only impugn the abuser.
Unfortunately, I have not seen it used in love...rather I’ve seen it used to brutalize so I have a negative attitude toward it.
But now John 8:1-12 reaches out right?
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That is a wonderful passage of grace and forgiveness for the woman. Jesus was teaching a lesson here, not excusing the woman's sin. Church discipline, properly exercised, seeks the same goal: forgiveness and restoration. Again, just because some have abused the practice does not mean we tear Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5 out of the Bible.
Let me share a personal anecdote. A number of years ago I was preaching on a Lord's day morning and I used an illustration that that mentioned someone's name. I had the facts of the illustration wrong. With a spirit of meekness and humility, a person in the congregation who know the facts took me aside privately and corrected me. I apologized for my laziness in not checking the facts and confessed it before the congregation on the next Lord's day. The result? I hold the brother who confronted me in high esteem because of the manner in which he confronted me.
In another case, a man started attending our church on a regular basis. After getting to know him he told us he was put out of a church because he refused to repent of a sin. He lived a life of rebellion against God for nearly 10 years after that. God allowed this man to go through a spiritual desert to teach him a lesson. The man wanted to join our church but we told him he had to make things right with his former church. It turns out the church still had the same pastor and remembered the situation well. They paid for this gentleman's plane ticket so that he could go back to his former church and publicly confess his sin. The result? The whole congregation welcomed him back to the faith with love and open arms. It was like the story of the prodigal. They were then able to commend him to us as a brother restored! It was a marvelous thing to witness.
And what if it were the pastor who was misusing his authority to manipulate a person to do what he wanted him to do?
I know a individual who was told he had to sign off that his kid had asbergers so that his church school could get money from the state... ie financing. And you should know that NJ is the place this stuff happens all the time... we have the most instances of these autistic supposed mental issues.
I know a individual who was told he had to sign off that his kid had asbergers so that his church school could get money from the state... ie financing. And you should know that NJ is the place this stuff happens all the time... we have the most instances of these autistic supposed mental issues.
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