You do seem to have the knack to disregard whatever any would say that goes against your viewpoints, and especially in regards to the real concerns some of us do have regarding the new Niv!
But let us focus on the KJVO here on the OP!
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Clarifying KJVO
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
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But let us focus on the KJVO here on the OP!
I can't speak for you, but this is a word one might hear but miss when they see it in writing. In speech when I've heard it (not saying people use it often) it comes out something like blag-ərd. (I've usually heard it as a noun, but it is a verb also.)
I can recall reading it (Narnia, Watership Down?), but I'm not sure if I've ever heard it in conversation.
Still skipping the FACT that the KJVO myth is not found in Scripture & thus has NO AUTHORITY FROM GOD for us to believe it.
If one wishes to use only the KJV for various other reasons, fine, but to say the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation is simply repeating a LIE.
If one wishes to use only the KJV for various other reasons, fine, but to say the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation is simply repeating a LIE.
I am not responsible for your lack of erudition.
Blackguard. v.t. abuse scurrilously.
That is your view and it may or may not be right, but it does not entitle you to call him a liar.
Then you should stick to the subject instead of blackguarding others on the forum. Since the soccer World Cup is on at present, here's some soccer advice: play the ball, not the man. Those who fail to do so at soccer are eventually sent off.
It's not a 'lie' and you should join Rippon in ceasing to use the term. It is an opinion; an incorrect one IMO, but an opinion nonetheless and Jordan is entitled to make his case for it on this forum. He has done so politely, and you should respond politely. IT'S TIME TO STOP CALLING OUR BROTHERS IN CHRIST, LIARS! Come on, mods, do your job!
Actually Roby is NOT calling Christians liars - he simply stated they are repeating a lie.- there is a difference.
Remember - the "authorized" part of Authorized King James - is that the King authorized that translation.
Bottom line -
I do agree with Roby - Can anyone show us in Scripture where the King James Version is the only version
approved by God?
M&M should have no problem with the above. It is completely reasonable.
Every Christian should be in agreement with this.
For anyone to say that the KJV is the only valid or legitimate English translation is of course a lie. It's also quite stupid --but a lie nonetheless.
Has he actually politely made a sound, reasonable, true, scriptural case for his KJV-only view?
Are you claiming it would be polite, reasonable, and proper for a KJV-only advocate to suggest in effect that his view is more spiritually-superior or doctrinally-sound while any believers that disagree are trusting in heretics and apostates and do not believe the Scriptures?
He has been politely asked to apply his own measures/standards/principles consistently and justly
Does Jordan believe that anyone who disagree with his allegations concerning textual critics are stating the truth?
Does Jordan actually consider his claims for the KJV to be mere subjective opinions?
What Robycop said was:
It is not a lie since the case can be neither proved nor disproved. It's an opinion.Robycop said:
Again, it's not a lie, it's an opinion. Rippon may believe it's a stupid opinion-- and I may agree with him-- but that doesn't make it a lie.
From Chick publications
QUESTION: Is the King James Bible inspired or preserved?
ANSWER: The original autographs were inspired. The King James Bible is those same autographs preserved up to today.
********************************************
IF it is an opinion - then Chick is Wrong!
NOWHERE in the Bible does it state that the KJV is inspired.
the definition of a lie is:
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or mistakenly accepted as true:
Could it be that men such as Chick know/knew the truth but have convinced themselves it is true?
IF so - then it is a lie.
First of all, Jordan has repudiated Jack Chick's view on this very thread. Secondly, if Chick genuinely believed it, it was not a lie, was it? It was a mistaken view.
Yes, absolutely. The words here are 'deliberately' and 'meant to deceive.' Jordan is presenting statement which he believes are true. He is not trying to deceive. Therefore he should not be attacked as a liar,[Edited: discussing Moderator actions in open forum].
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2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
Is the KJV scripture?
Major Premise: All Scripture is Inspired. (2 Tim. 3:16)
Minor Premise: The KJV is Scripture. (2 Tim. 3:15 Thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation. A person can be saved while reading/hearing the KJV preached.)
New Major Premise: The KJV is Inspired.
Sounds to me as if Jordan can make a case for his position.
Absolutely. What he cannot do, without serious scriptural gymnastics, is make the case that the KJV is the only or best translation of the original texts based solely on the evidence of scripture.
I don't think Jordan is making the claim based on internal evidence because this thread is not about the scriptural foundation for any text but on external influences upon modern compilers.
I don't think Jordan is making the claim based on internal evidence because this thread is not about the scriptural foundation for any text but on external influences upon modern compilers.
Exactly! I can make the same assertion regarding the ESV.
2 Timothy 3:16 English Standard Version (ESV)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Is the ESV scripture?
Major Premise: All Scripture is Breathed Out from God. (2 Tim. 3:16)
Minor Premise: The ESV is Scripture. (15 "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation." A person can be saved while reading/hearing the ESV preached.)
New Major Premise: The ESV is Inspired (Breathed Out Sacred Writings).
In the beginning Jordan posted this statement of purpose:
If you disagree, then disagree, and leave off the blackguarding and accusations of lying.
Yes, of course. But that is what Roby, Salty, and others are demanding he do.
But of course, by making such a demand they fail to see the point that textual criticism and bible translations are not a scriptural issue but one of scholarship.
Jordan can honestly believe what I posted in #74, and therefore it is not a lie. (And calling him a liar is a BB rule violation.)
His logic is chop logic, but it is, nevertheless, a logical, but incomplete, conclusion.
So, Roby, Salty, and others, to avoid giving his assertions support, should drop the "the KJV does not say the KJV is inspired" claim for, in fact, it does exactly that. (As does every other English translation).
A claim that can neither be proved nor disproved would be a claim based on use of the fallacy of meaningless claim.
Henry A. Virkler noted: "The fallacy of meaningless claim occurs whenever a person makes claims that, by their nature, are impossible to verify or refute" (Christian's Guide to Critical Thinking, p. 217).
Statements or opinions involving use of a fallacy can deceive or mislead.
Would not a fallacy be closer to the category of falsehood than to the category of truth?
The KJV is a translation of the Scriptures.
The KJV is not the Scriptures directly given by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles.
Because the Scriptures given to the prophets and apostles were inspired, it does not necessarily follow that a translation of the Scriptures has to be also inspired or that a translation was given by inspiration of God. Because the process of the giving of the Scriptures to the prophets and apostles was by inspiration, it does not follow that the copying of the Scriptures was by inspiration or that the translating of the Scriptures was by inspiration.
A Bible translation can be scripture or word of God in a different sense than the original-language Scriptures are.
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