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Clarifying KJVO
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
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Jordan,
I would be interested in your view of this KJVO position:
http://concealathing.blogspot.com/2017/04/kjv-impossibilityof-contrary.html
JK is asserting extra-biblical things. He is against logic. He has loyalty to things that cannot stand the scrutiny of facts and just plain reason. He has added an article of faith foreign to the Word of God.
Further, he repudiates the Preface of the 1611 KJV by Miles Smith. He probably would not want that Preface included in copies of the KJV --it does incredible damage to his stated belief system.
MM said :" if Chick genuinely believed it, it was not a lie, was it? It was a mistaken view."
But merely because someone believes something --no matter what --they are not lying in your view? People cannot believe a lie in your opinion? You err and Scripture is against you.
But merely because someone believes something --no matter what --they are not lying in your view? People cannot believe a lie in your opinion? You err and Scripture is against you.
It is a lie to think that people cannot possibly be lying if they are sincere. Sincerity is not a mark of truthfulness. Some folks can be zealous, but in their zeal be false to the truth.
I agree that people can sincerely believe something that is not true (that is false).
Because someone believes something does not make it true.
Someone can think that what they believe is true and right when it is actually false and wrong.
The KJVO myth has no Scriptural support at all & therefore cannot be true. Thus, repeating it is repeating a LIE. No way around it, Martin.
Yes, of course. But that is what Roby, Salty, and others are demanding he do.
But of course, by making such a demand they fail to see the point that textual criticism and bible translations are not a scriptural issue but one of scholarship.
Jordan can honestly believe what I posted in #74, and therefore it is not a lie. (And calling him a liar is a BB rule violation.)
His logic is chop logic, but it is, nevertheless, a logical, but incomplete, conclusion.
So, Roby, Salty, and others, to avoid giving his assertions support, should drop the "the KJV does not say the KJV is inspired" claim for, in fact, it does exactly that. (As does every other English translation).
But the KJVO myth IS a lie. However, I didn't call Jordan a liar. I, too, have repeated lies cuz I didn't know they were lies. But the facts about KJVO are plain. It has no support from GOD, & therefore cannot be true. Thus, if anyone repeats it, he/she is repeating a lie, whether knowingly or not.
You likely know that I've asked every KJVO who comes here for SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, and to name their AUTHORITY for the KJVO myth, and most have failed to reply, or have lamely said "Psalm 12:6-7", a "thingie" which has been proven false. (Same verses appear in every valid translation!)
And the assertion that the KJV is the ONLY valid English bible translation out there was proven to be a lie long ago, an invention by some men, outta thin air, with NO authority nor support from GOD to justify it. So, let's face it - the KJVO myth is just that, a myth, entirely man-made, entirely FALSE.
So, if anyone repeats it, one is repeating a lie. That doesn't necessarily make him/her a liar, not unless that one is knowledgeable about the FACTS of KJVO, but repeats it anyway.
You may believe that Jordan is mistaken in his views, and maybe I agree with you, but that does not make him a liar. You now know, if you did not before, that to call someone a liar is a violation of B.B. rules, so you won't be doing that any more, will you?
Jordan has explained his views on the KJV quite clearly. They are his views, his beliefs, you may call them mistaken, but you may not call them lies.
End of story.
You are taking after y1. You quote an entire post of mine without addressing the contents.
If someone engages in lies I will call them out for it.
Suggesting that someone believes or claims something that is not true or that is false is not actually calling someone a liar as you incorrectly claim.
You seem to assume that saying that someone is claiming something false and wrong would be a violation of B.B. rules.
Well I shall be reporting your posts and I certainly hope you get banned if you persist. It is no part of a Christian discussion forum to call your brothers in Christ liars. Have you considered what effect people like you have on non-Christians who may come on to the forum?
Well, have you considered what effect that those who profess to be Christians yet lie have?
I am objecting to posters calling other posters liars. It is against the B.B. rules, it is impolite and it has occurred on this thread if you have the time and energy to trawl through it.Logos 1560 said:
I have no problem with people refuting what they see as false doctrine robustly-- I do it myself-- but if someone thinks that someone else has lied, they should report the post to the mods.
Report it to the mods if it happens. But someone who disagrees with you is not ipso facto a liar.
And who, on this forum, would that be?
Read what I've written. I have never claimed that. To state the blindingly obvious, it is the essence of a discussion forum to be able to say that someone is wrong. But being wrong doesn't make someone a liar.
That is what you claim to be doing, but you fail to prove that is what those posters actually did.
Saying that something that is stated or claimed by someone is not true, is false, or is a lie is not calling the person who posted it a liar. Saying that someone believes something false is not calling them a liar. It is proper and sound to address what someone stated or claimed, and that is not saying anything personal against the person himself.
In my opinion, you could be making a false allegation against other posters, claiming that they did something that they did not actually do. You seem to be taking someone disagreeing with your accusations or assertions personally.
One cannot make though the case for the ESV/Kjv or any other English translation to be inspired, as that applies only to the originals!Exactly! I can make the same assertion regarding the ESV.
2 Timothy 3:16 English Standard Version (ESV)
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Is the ESV scripture?
Major Premise: All Scripture is Breathed Out from God. (2 Tim. 3:16)
Minor Premise: The ESV is Scripture. (15 "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation." A person can be saved while reading/hearing the ESV preached.)
New Major Premise: The ESV is Inspired (Breathed Out Sacred Writings).
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