COMMON-ground?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I absolutely believe God wants to save all men, including men like Hitler and Stalin. Did God want to save the Jews who crucified Jesus?

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Peter told these Jews they had wickedly crucified Jesus. They were convicted and asked what they could do. Peter told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and they shall receive the Holy Ghost (after believeing).

He then tells them this promise is to them, their children, and ALL that are afar off.

And Peter was no Calvinist, he told these men to "Save themselves"!

Winman....Im simply giving you insight into what a "Supralapsarianist" thinks & trust me there are allot of them... hopefully in the Presbyterian side of things & not Baptist. Note however that this fellow is not Hyper Calvinist Those characters go much farther than I think anyone on this board can even imagine. So beware, next time someone starts shamefully calling a brother a Hyper Calvinist.

 

[JesusFan]

Winman....Im simply giving you insight into what a "Supralapsarianist" thinks & trust me there are allot of them... hopefully in the Presbyterian side of things & not Baptist. Note however that this fellow is not Hyper Calvinist Those characters go much farther than I think anyone on this board can even imagine. So beware, next time someone starts shamefully calling a brother a Hyper Calvinist.

think hyper cal would again be someone who thinks that God will be saving His elect period, so no need to evn preach/proclaim Christ...

Since that violates the Great Commission , thast would mean that version of Calvinism is VERY suspect!

 

[glfredrick]

think hyper cal would again be someone who thinks that God will be saving His elect period, so no need to evn preach/proclaim Christ...

Since that violates the Great Commission , thast would mean that version of Calvinism is VERY suspect!

Hyper-Calvinism is not a "version" of Calvinism. That it bears the same name means little. It is an heretical view of God's sovereignty that goes far beyond where the Scriptures allow. It is akin (and opposite) to Pelagianism, which is an heretical view of man's sovereignty.

 

[JesusFan]

Hyper-Calvinism is not a "version" of Calvinism. That it bears the same name means little. It is an heretical view of God's sovereignty that goes far beyond where the Scriptures allow. It is akin (and opposite) to Pelagianism, which is an heretical view of man's sovereignty.

What is Semi pelagianism , and is it prompted here on BB at all?

 

[quantumfaith]

What is Semi pelagianism , and is it prompted here on BB at all?

What is Semi-Pelagianism? It s a technical term used in the discipline of historical theology for the teaching of the “Massilians” John Cassian, Faustus of Riez and Vincent of Lyons (and others such as possibly Prosper of Aquitaine) that the initiative in salvation is on the human side even though full salvation can only be by God’s grace.

Cassian termed the initiative in salvation “exercising a good will toward God” and argued that God awaits it before he offers grace.

Semi-Pelagianism, then, is denial of prevenient grace. Classical Arminianism is, of course, all about prevenient grace. My friend Stan Grenz described it using four words: conviction, calling, enabling and enlightening. (There is no order to these; they are simultaneous in the work of prevenient grace.) These are all the work of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God and without them no one seeks God.

http://www.patheos.com/community/rogereolson/2011/02/20/american-christianity-and-semi-pelagianism/

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What is Semi pelagianism , and is it prompted here on BB at all?

dont you have google professor....you tell up.....in fact, why not try to compare & contrast.:tongue3:

 

[quantumfaith]

dont you have google professor....you tell up.....in fact, why not try to compare & contrast.:tongue3:

Is JF, also a fellow teacher?

 

[JesusFan]

Is JF, also a fellow teacher?

Been an Elder/Sunday school teacher/Youth Ministry/Treasurer

Never formal "teacher!"

 

[quantumfaith]

Been an Elder/Sunday school teacher/Youth Ministry/Treasurer

Never formal "teacher!"

Ewf, has referred to you as "professor" on a few occasions, just thought perhaps you were a fellow teacher.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

think hyper cal would again be someone who thinks that God will be saving His elect period, so no need to evn preach/proclaim Christ...

Since that violates the Great Commission , thast would mean that version of Calvinism is VERY suspect!

I once sat in a room with 4 of them while they tried to hoist their BS on me..... I wasnt a member of their elite group so I was not a part of their covenant, nor was my wife. Never mind that we belonged to a Presbyterian Church it wasnt theirs. So we both were told that our child was not part of the covenant....unfortunately that child is now in hell but you can save future children being born as reprobates by becoming members of the Church of the Covenant. Oh yea, I want to embrace that. Now the collateral damage was that my wife was raised Dutch Reformed so she believed their crud & took it to heart. Brethren it almost killed her. But it also taught me something....I wasnt going to any church or pastor for my salvation. Trouble is I wasnt going to anybody or anything for anything spiritual. Fact is I hated God & I didnt believe in Him anymore. Life for me was totally secular & I enjoyed it .....freedom from God. Yea, I know the differences between Historic Calvinism & Hyper Calvinism & its this.....anybody not them is nobody (worse than nobody).

 

[JesusFan]

What is Semi-Pelagianism? It s a technical term used in the discipline of historical theology for the teaching of the “Massilians” John Cassian, Faustus of Riez and Vincent of Lyons (and others such as possibly Prosper of Aquitaine) that the initiative in salvation is on the human side even though full salvation can only be by God’s grace.

Cassian termed the initiative in salvation “exercising a good will toward God” and argued that God awaits it before he offers grace.

Semi-Pelagianism, then, is denial of prevenient grace. Classical Arminianism is, of course, all about prevenient grace. My friend Stan Grenz described it using four words: conviction, calling, enabling and enlightening. (There is no order to these; they are simultaneous in the work of prevenient grace.) These are all the work of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God and without them no one seeks God.

http://www.patheos.com/community/rogereolson/2011/02/20/american-christianity-and-semi-pelagianism/

So IF someone teaches that we can respond by faith in jesus and ONLY thing needed to produce that response if the Gospel getting preached/taught...
is that semi pel theology?

Just trying to see where that would be in relation to a salvation model!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Been an Elder/Sunday school teacher/Youth Ministry/Treasurer

Never formal "teacher!"

An Elder & an "Amaryllis" ....I'm impressed:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

Mediating position, which i adhere to at present time, in that Jesus did indeed atone/die for sins of all peoples BUT that God requires in order for it to be effectual applied that people personally respond by faith in jesus...
Knowing that man is unable to do that, being spiritually dead, God applies Grace to His elected peoples, who will than have both the means and will respond by faith in Jesus and confirm their Election from/by God!

Why would Jesus die for all men, and then the Father only enable a few?

That would be God nullifying his own purpose.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What is Semi-Pelagianism? It s a technical term used in the discipline of historical theology for the teaching of the “Massilians” John Cassian, Faustus of Riez and Vincent of Lyons (and others such as possibly Prosper of Aquitaine) that the initiative in salvation is on the human side even though full salvation can only be by God’s grace.

Cassian termed the initiative in salvation “exercising a good will toward God” and argued that God awaits it before he offers grace.

Semi-Pelagianism, then, is denial of prevenient grace. Classical Arminianism is, of course, all about prevenient grace. My friend Stan Grenz described it using four words: conviction, calling, enabling and enlightening. (There is no order to these; they are simultaneous in the work of prevenient grace.) These are all the work of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God and without them no one seeks God.

http://www.patheos.com/community/rogereolson/2011/02/20/american-christianity-and-semi-pelagianism/

So does this mean Dave that your coming out as a Semi-Pelagian?

 

[quantumfaith]

So does this mean Dave that your coming out as a Semi-Pelagian?

If I knew for certain that I was semi-pelagian, I would be the first to announce without hesitation. I do not think I am, as I understand SP, a work of God is only required after man makes the initial step toward him. I, at the moment, am convinced that God makes the step through so called prevenient grace. What I am a little "wiggly" about is when. As I said before, I am not convinced that this prevenient grace is not present from the Adam.

 

[preacher4truth]

If I knew for certain that I was semi-pelagian, I would be the first to announce without hesitation. I do not think I am, as I understand SP, a work of God is only required after man makes the initial step toward him. I, at the moment, am convinced that God makes the step through so called prevenient grace. What I am a little "wiggly" about is when. As I said before, I am not convinced that this prevenient grace is not present from the Adam.

So you made the first move? Interesting. Initial? No?

This is contrary to Peters description of salvific process in 1 Peter 1:1-2.

:love2:

Are you about to make an "announcement?"

 

[quantumfaith]

So you made the first move? Interesting. Initial? No?

This is contrary to Peters description of salvific process in 1 Peter 1:1-2.

:love2:

Are you about to make an "announcement?"

No announcement, and I know if I suggest you re read the post, it will only annoy you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No announcement, and I know if I suggest you re read the post, it will only annoy you.

I got it....do you have a salvation story (personal) that you could refer to? That helps me (Personally) tremendously.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why would Jesus die for all men, and then the Father only enable a few?

That would be God nullifying his own purpose.

Father enables!?! ...thought that was the job of the Holy Spirit? right? Father Selected before the beginning of time; Christ saved by His death on the cross & the shedding of his blood & the Holy Ghost, as I said in childhood, Quickens you & gives you a conscience. Am I correct in this?

 

[Winman]

How can a man possibly take the first step toward God? What does that even mean?

You could not possibly come to Jesus unless you first heard of him.

It might be possible that a man can see from creation that there is a God, but he cannot know the true God without God's word. A man in the jungle might perceive there is a God from observing creation and pray that God reveal himself to him and then a missionary comes and tells him the gospel.

But even this revelation through creation is from God.

Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

I have read stories of people who lived in the jungles who sensed God through creation and prayed that God would reveal himself, and then a missionary came to his village, preached the gospel and he was saved.

But even here man did not make the first move, God first revealed himself to that man through creation as Psalm 19 says.