Conditional Salvation

[Particular]

You are so funny you made me laugh so hard I nearly fell out of my chair.. You seem so irritated. Hehehehe
MB

Great to make you smile. I notice you aren't actually answering. It seems like you have created various ploys to avoid looking inward. You intrigue me with your strategies to circumvent conflict.

 

[MB]

Great to make you smile. I notice you aren't actually answering. It seems like you have created various ploys to avoid looking inward. You intrigue me with your strategies to circumvent conflict.

You want conflict OOOOOOOH I'm so scared
What conflict is that? Are you threatening me with conflict? Oh you mean you attacking me verbally with out cause. That really scares me. Please stop making me laugh I might bust a gut. You attack me with degrading comments and I'm suppose to run and hide.Hehehehehehe! Like I said you make me laugh. You seem just like the pharisee's who disagreed with Christ. They tried to the same with Him as well. You ridicule me for what reason to make your self seem superior? Hehehehe. How Is that working for you. You're still making me laugh. You say you are intrigue with me. are you feminine? .You shouldn't be so attracted to married men.
MB

 

[MB]

Please answer the question.

Are we supposed to find all theological phrases in the Bible?

Hehehehehehehehehehe! I would hehehehehehe But I can't stop laughing hehehehehe
MB

 

[37818]

You didn't answer my question.

Does that mean humans are perfect, holy, righteous and sinless?

Your logical deduction is lacking. Humans were made good before the fall. And after the fall did not cease having been made in God's image, Genesis 9:6. Nowhere does God say He made man perfect. But God even now comands us to be perfect. Deuteronomy 18:13. Matthew 5:48. Yet according to Roman 3:23 we are not of ourselves.

 

[Particular]

You want conflict OOOOOOOH I'm so scared
What conflict is that? Are you threatening me with conflict? Oh you mean you attacking me verbally with out cause. That really scares me. Please stop making me laugh I might bust a gut. You attack me with degrading comments and I'm suppose to run and hide.Hehehehehehe! Like I said you make me laugh. You seem just like the pharisee's who disagreed with Christ. They tried to the same with Him as well. You ridicule me for what reason to make your self seem superior? Hehehehe. How Is that working for you. You're still making me laugh. You say you are intrigue with me. are you feminine? .You shouldn't be so attracted to married men.
MB

Apparently you misunderstood what I said.

 

[Particular]

Hehehehehehehehehehe! I would hehehehehehe But I can't stop laughing hehehehehe
MB

Your deflection tells me you are stumped. I ask the question yet again.

Are we supposed to find all theological phrases in the Bible?

 

[Particular]

Your logical deduction is lacking. Humans were made good before the fall. And after the fall did not cease having been made in God's image, Genesis 9:6. Nowhere does God say He made man perfect. But God even now comands us to be perfect. Deuteronomy 18:13. Matthew 5:48. Yet according to Roman 3:23 we are not of ourselves.

I just asked a question. Thank you for answering.
From your point of view, how are we made perfect today?

 

[MB]

Great to make you smile. I notice you aren't actually answering. It seems like you have created various ploys to avoid looking inward. You intrigue me with your strategies to circumvent conflict.

In ward. As soon as you offer something to the conversation that isn't funny. You know you just have to quit with childish comments. and start acting like an adult.

Apparently you misunderstood what I said.

For some reason my computer doesn't seem to express humor very well. The answer is scripture is necessary but is not a requirement unless you wish to be taken seriously. As far as rules of conversation you will have to do a search from the home page to find them or ask someone else
MB

 

[utilyan]

It seems you misunderstand the meaning of total depravity.

Really I stated its most common form:
'
As a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

Total depravity - Wikipedia
Total depravity (also called radical corruption or pervasive depravity) is a Christian theological doctrine derived from the concept of original sin. It is the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

It is advocated to various degrees by many Protestant confessions of faith and catechisms, including those of some Lutheran synods,[1][2][better source needed] and Calvinism.[3][4][5][6] Arminians, such as Methodists, believe and teach total depravity, but with distinct differences.[7][8] The key distinction between the total depravity embraced by Calvin and the total depravity taught by Arminius is the distinction between irresistible grace and prevenient grace.


I've been doing this for years Particular, Want me to pull a definition from Carm or Got Questions, Maybe you like James White, piper or Sproul meaning? Give me yours.

 

[utilyan]

Please answer the question.

Are we supposed to find all theological phrases in the Bible?

There isn't a problem with creating theological phrases, as long as you can pick up the meanings and implications from scripture.

You can find plenty of instances of evil, People sinning. doing wrong, all have sinned.

Plenty of verses. But you can't piece anything together that states there is an Inability to respond to God until God regenerates/gives the gift of faith. (or however you identify TOTAL DEPRAVITY)

You have a very simple and easy Job. All you have to do is walk us through the bible verses that made you say well because it says here ALL have sinned, then NO one knows how to cook spaghetti.

I want you to draw your conclusion from within scripture, even better if scripture made the conclusion for you.

I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing long lists of errors of particular people, sins committed by all groups here and there. But none of them jump to this spiritual mechanic which your philosophy has created outside of scripture.


Its like if I show you thousands of verses about adultery and so this justifies that shaking hands is an act of adultery.

You are not giving any link from inside of scripture from all the sins and bad things to inability to respond to God.

 

[Particular]

In ward. As soon as you offer something to the conversation that isn't funny. You know you just have to quit with childish comments. and start acting like an adult.

For some reason my computer doesn't seem to express humor very well. The answer is scripture is necessary but is not a requirement unless you wish to be taken seriously. As far as rules of conversation you will have to do a search from the home page to find them or ask someone else
MB

Nice deflection. Thanks

 

[Particular]

Really I stated its most common form:
'
As a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

Total depravity - Wikipedia
Total depravity (also called radical corruption or pervasive depravity) is a Christian theological doctrine derived from the concept of original sin. It is the teaching that, as a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

It is advocated to various degrees by many Protestant confessions of faith and catechisms, including those of some Lutheran synods,[1][2][better source needed] and Calvinism.[3][4][5][6] Arminians, such as Methodists, believe and teach total depravity, but with distinct differences.[7][8] The key distinction between the total depravity embraced by Calvin and the total depravity taught by Arminius is the distinction between irresistible grace and prevenient grace.


I've been doing this for years Particular, Want me to pull a definition from Carm or Got Questions, Maybe you like James White, piper or Sproul meaning? Give me yours.

Do you disagree with original sin? Do you advocate for the origin of sin?

 

[Particular]

There isn't a problem with creating theological phrases, as long as you can pick up the meanings and implications from scripture.

You can find plenty of instances of evil, People sinning. doing wrong, all have sinned.

Plenty of verses. But you can't piece anything together that states there is an Inability to respond to God until God regenerates/gives the gift of faith. (or however you identify TOTAL DEPRAVITY)

You have a very simple and easy Job. All you have to do is walk us through the bible verses that made you say well because it says here ALL have sinned, then NO one knows how to cook spaghetti.

I want you to draw your conclusion from within scripture, even better if scripture made the conclusion for you.

I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing long lists of errors of particular people, sins committed by all groups here and there. But none of them jump to this spiritual mechanic which your philosophy has created outside of scripture.


Its like if I show you thousands of verses about adultery and so this justifies that shaking hands is an act of adultery.

You are not giving any link from inside of scripture from all the sins and bad things to inability to respond to God.

Hmmm...perhaps you haven't read John 6, John 10, Romans 3, Ephesians 1 and 2, etc.

 

[37818]

What I disagree with in total depravity is that we inherited Adam's sin. We did not inherit Adam's sin.

Total depravity is not inheriting Adam's sin.

Total depravity is caused by our inherited knowledge of God's knowledge of good and evil because of Adam's disobience. Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:22; Romans 5:12. So we are guilty for our own sin. Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20; Deuteronomy 24:16; Revelation 20:12.

 

[37818]

I just asked a question. Thank you for answering.
From your point of view, how are we made perfect today?

The short answer, aquiring underserved favor from God through faith in His Son who died for us and rose bodily from the dead. It is a standing to have with God.

 

[MB]

Total depravit is not inheriting Adam's sin.

I can agree with that the other is because of Adam's sin Calvinist claim we are unable to respond to the gospel unless we are regenerated first. The word regenerated means to be saved then they claim we cannot believe in Christ until God saves us They place Salvation before faitn which is impossible.It seems to me that total depravity has many false doctrines with in it.
MB

 

[Particular]

The short answer, aquiring underserved favor from God through faith in His Son who died for us and rose bodily from the dead. It is a standing to have with God.

Here is how I break down what you have stated:
1) God chooses to be gracious.
2) Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and his resurrection from the dead.

Merge these two together and that person is made perfect.

Would that be an accurate breakdown of your position?

 

[Particular]

I can agree with that the other is because of Adam's sin Calvinist claim we are unable to respond to the gospel unless we are regenerated first. The word regenerated means to be saved then they claim we cannot believe in Christ until God saves us They place Salvation before faitn which is impossible.It seems to me that total depravity has many false doctrines with in it.
MB

Is a person spiritually dead in trespasses and sins and then made alive with Christ or is there a different process?

 

[37818]

Here is how I break down what you have stated:
1) God chooses to be gracious.
2) Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and his resurrection from the dead.

Merge these two together and that person is made perfect.

Would that be an accurate breakdown of your position?

Yes.

Now for those whom God has saved there are some practical aspects. The fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 55:22-23. And what we can actually do. James wrote, ". . . If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. . . ." -- James 3:2. And as for controlling our speech, Jesus warned, ". . . out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. . . ." -- Matthew 12:34. Now a Proverb promises, ". . .Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established. . . ." -- Proverbs 16:3. The Apostle Paul wrote, ". . . And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; . . ." -- Colossians 3:23.

 

[MB]

Is a person spiritually dead in trespasses and sins and then made alive with Christ or is there a different process?

Man is saved by grace through faith. No man is saved by Grace alone. No faith. No grace.
Jesus went to man named simon house and this took place;
Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

With the carnal mind man can hear and understand the milk of the word. The term "dead" is a metaphor meaning we are considered dead to God. If a man's spirit were actually dead then the man would also be dead. The Spirit animates the body. Paul also claimed He died to sin daily. Does this mean he died every day and rose again? Of course not. It means he repented of his sins regularly. The carnal man can understand the milk of the word.
Paul wrote;
Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Everyone starts out in Christianity at the very bottom and as you Grow You learn to walk Spiritually. Being spiritual is a learned experience. it isn't just bestowed on you. How ever we are all carnal at times I know I am and I also, like Paul die daily to sin. It's not a requirement I do this to confess my sins before the Lord and He is faithful to forgive.
MB