Confess and Believe

[InTheLight]

Who is the "you" in verse 3 referring to? Well, it is the people to whom the book was written. And to whom was the book written? The answer is in Romans 1:7 and it is not every man.

Well, the OP says it is Jews.
You are saying it is the Gentile believers at Rome.

So, there is a problem.

This is known as the Calvinist faulty argument #3. And I think it is hilarious that two Calvinists can't agree on to whom the verses were written. You're contradicting each other trying to prove Calvinism.

#3. THAT VERSE WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE CLAIMING

 

[Reformed1689]

Well, the OP says it is Jews.
You are saying it is the Gentile believers at Rome.

So, there is a problem.

This is known as the Calvinist faulty argument #3.

#3. THAT VERSE WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE CLAIMING

First, that's not what the OP is talking about. Read it again. Second, please show how I am wrong based on what Paul actually wrote. It is not a faulty argument. Romans 1:7 clearly states who this is written to.

 

[InTheLight]

First, that's not what the OP is talking about. Read it again.

Here's what was in the OP:

1. Paul is writing about the Jews. In Romans 10:1 Paul writes, "Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation." The "them" in 10:1 can be traced back to Romans 9:31-33, "31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

2. The Jews were trapped in a works-based righteousness system, trusting in adherence to the Mosaic Law rather than Christ (Romans 9:31-33; 10:1-5).

3. Paul references a passage from Deuteronomy to make the point that the Law itself testified of Christ; that Christ was so near to them but their blindness obscured their vision. In context the passage reads:

4. This brings us to the correct interpretation of Romans 10:9-10. Romans 10:9-10 is not reduced to just audibly confessing one's belief that "Jesus is Lord". It actually is a refutation of any works-based system of righteousness. In the Jews of Paul's time, it was trusting in the Mosaic Law.

So, if the OP is not insisting that Romans 10 was written to the Jews, what is he saying?

Second, please show how I am wrong based on what Paul actually wrote. It is not a faulty argument.

Did I say you were wrong? No.

Romans 1:7 clearly states who this is written to.

Yes, Gentile believers at Rome.

 

[Reformed1689]

Here's what was in the OP:



So, if the OP is not insisting that Romans 10 was written to the Jews, what is he saying?



Did I say you were wrong? No.




Yes, Gentile believers at Rome.

Yes, notice it says "About" the Jews in the OP not "To" the Jews.

 

[InTheLight]

Yes, notice it says "About" the Jews in the OP not "To" the Jews.

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Reformed1689]

A distinction without a difference.

No there is a big difference actually. In chapter 10 he is writing TO the Gentiles in Rome ABOUT the Jews. That being said, I was referencing Romans 12, not Romans 10. But I was in no way in disagreement with the OP as you are trying to claim.

 

[1689Dave]

Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved? How we answer this question will influence how we read scripture in matters of salvation.

If we believe because we are saved, we will confess faith because we are saved.

If we are saved because we believe, we will confess faith as a means of being saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

Scripture never states that man was effected by this so called fall so that he is unable to respond to the gospel. Not even once.
MB

Post 5 already answers this. You ignoring those facts does not change it.

 

[Iconoclast]

No there is a big difference actually. In chapter 10 he is writing TO the Gentiles in Rome ABOUT the Jews. That being said, I was referencing Romans 12, not Romans 10. But I was in no way in disagreement with the OP as you are trying to claim.

Yes...notice, the poster makes no attempt to speak about the post or thread, just trolling looking for a potential contradiction.
He watches that He might accuse mk 3:2

 

[InTheLight]

Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved? How we answer this question will influence how we read scripture in matters of salvation.

If we believe because we are saved, we will confess faith because we are saved.

If we are saved because we believe, we will confess faith as a means of being saved.

Scripture clearly says we are saved BECAUSE we believe.

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[InTheLight]

He watches that He might accuse mk 3:2

#2

 

[Reformed1689]

#2

Oh well at least he has updated his signature to give us a quick reference guide to his waste of time (and space) nonsense.

 

[InTheLight]

Oh well at least he has updated his signature to give us a quick reference guide to his waste of time (and space) nonsense.

Yes, well I'm sure that verse in Mark 3 that Iconoclast posted about me is taken out of context. I am not claiming to be the Messiah, nor am I healing on the Sabbath.

Think before you post. Really, you guys, it's too easy...

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes, well I'm sure that verse in Mark 3 that Iconoclast posted about me is taken out of context. I am not claiming to be the Messiah, nor am I healing on the Sabbath.

Think before you post. Really, you guys, it's too easy...

Um, nobody said you were. You were being compared to the Pharisees....

 

[agedman]

Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved? How we answer this question will influence how we read scripture in matters of salvation.

If we believe because we are saved, we will confess faith because we are saved.

If we are saved because we believe, we will confess faith as a means of being saved.

This is a very good insight.

Part of the answer is the motivation from the core.

For example, the Scriptures state, in James, demons have belief but it s not given to them the core change as the motivation to repent and confess salvation.

It is that way with “wolves” who are agenda driven and have no core change that is life altering.

Often believers can only look on the outward for evidence and can be deceived into thinking a person is a believer because they confess belief.

To confess belief is not salvation, unless such confession is done from a core that has already been changed.

This is significant to understanding how salvation changes a person.

Often one thinks that by confession salvation happens, but words in a person’s mouth often are opposed to what they really are - example con artists, Dahmer types, ...

I must, as a result of my deteriorating mind , rely upon the validation of others who are and remain far better at the languages to kindly redirect any time I make a rendering.

I submit to those knowledgeable of the BB in this area to address the issue of correction at anytime.

With that held, I will make the following statement:

Taking the original, (moving “for” from the second word to the first word to make the English structure grammatically correct) the statement by Paul may be rendered:
“For in heart, righteous belief results in confession of salvation”

 

[InTheLight]

Taking the original, (moving “for” from the second word to the first word to make the English structure grammatically correct) the statement by Paul may be rendered:
“For in heart, righteous belief results in confession of salvation”

#1

 

[agedman]

#1

What do you mean by the #1?

 

[InTheLight]

What do you mean by the #1?

The key to my numbered responses is in my signature.

#1. THAT WORD MEANS SOMETHING ELSE IN THE GREEK;

 

[MB]

Post 5 already answers this. You ignoring those facts does not change it.

Not so my friend those verses say absolutely nothing about an inability or fall.
MB

 

[agedman]

The key to my numbered responses is in my signature.

#1. THAT WORD MEANS SOMETHING ELSE IN THE GREEK;

Ok,

But would have much rather you brought your own language work to show the error I made.