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Daniel Thanks for your reply.Originally posted by Daniel:
James...how would you describe the music in a church that adopted the attitude you espoused above? Try to be specific in every way possible. (I don't mean that to be too tall an order, I just want to understand what you picture this music sounding like operating within the godly model you proposed...)
BTW...this is the wrong way to pick standards too. If this is the ONLY reason you have standards is because someone else says it in a book...that is just as wrong. You can use others to get insight. But in the end it should be your OWN heart as the Holy Spirit works in your understand. If however you agree 100% with these guys....then go for it.Originally posted by Dale McNamee:
Dear Travelsong,
That evil form of music would be whatever David Cloud,Dial-the-Truth Ministries,Terry Godwin,Peter Masters,Kimberly Smith,Frank Garlock,et al says it is!![]()
In Christ,
Dale
Well, you actually do believe the bible addresses them. You believe musical styles are addressed in Romans 14, because you believe them to be something like wine and meat, and you made a lengthy post presuming to speak God's mind concerning musical styles based on that passage.Originally posted by Daniel:
No, I am not conceding that the Bible addresses styles of music. Sorry for the confusion.
Look out, you're about to make an argument about demeanor!Originally posted by Daniel:
A tool to help with our current discussion...a definition of STYLE :
I don't know that the Bible is concerned with endorsing specific musical styles for worship.Originally posted by Aaron:
Now, if I could get a response from Travelsong, Dale, whatever, or anyone else making a brief statement about musical styles based on a specific Scriptural passage, we'll go on.
I was thinking about Psalm 150.Originally posted by Aaron:
Now, if I could get a response from Travelsong, Dale, whatever, or anyone else making a brief statement about musical styles based on a specific Scriptural passage, we'll go on.
Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens!
Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness!
Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!
Basically, once again, we must avoid the style because there is someone somewhere int he world who doesn;t like it. What wins out by default? Classical/traditional, of course!Is it really? Let's switch the subject from music to wine, which is one of the things actually addressed by Romans 14. (vs 21)
Let's say your wife has a genuine conscience toward drinking wine. She feels it is a sin. She feels you are sinning when you do it, though there really is nothing evil about the temperate consumption of alcoholic beverages. She understands how you feel though, but just can't shake the feeling that you are offending Heaven when you inbibe, and it hurts her.
Can you really say that you are demonstrating unconditional love for her if you merely abstain in her presence, or worse, if you hide it from her? Could you honestly be saying that you are laying down your life for her when you refuse to sacrifice your wine for the sake of her conscience?
In fact, wouldn't be more of a slap in the face? Yes, it would.
The point in Romans 14 is not courtesy, it's genuine love. What kind of love is courtesy? What do ye more than others? The guys where I work abstain from cussing in my presence. That's no Christian thing.
Honestly, all you're doing is showing the same kind of courtesy that practically any worldly, cold-hearted non-Christian shows every day. There's nothing Christian about it, and is no where near the love commanded in Romans 14 or anywhere else in the Bible.
Where the focus of my detractors in this thread is on how they should be treated by others, the weight of Romans 14 is laid squarely on the shoulders of the stronger, more knowledgeable Christians.
What, then, is the good thing for the stronger to do? It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Now, just substitute "drink wine" with "listen to rock music." Hey, you're the ones that say it's the same kind of thing. (It isn't, but I'll explain later.)
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor listen to rock music, nor any thing whereby they brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
And where is the "in their presence" clause in this chapter anyway? Paul's sentiment was that he wouldn't eat meat as long as the earth stood if it caused his brother to offend. The "in their presence" condition is neither understood nor implied in this passage or any other concerning Christian liberty. It's a desperate attempt of the carnal mind to rescue pride and self will.
If your family was truly grieved by your musical choice, I doubt they would consider you respectful if you persisted in your indulgence. So I doubt it's a real issue of conscience with them. I'd say it's more in the area of preference.
Welcome back, Daniel. Actually, much had changed, as for months, there was no Aaron, and no debate on styles at all. Just discussions on some band or questions on other stuff, or whatever. Aaron would every few month try to start this stuff up again, but at first it went nowhere. For some reason, this one picked back up. (I chacked over here regularly, but forgot this title was a debate). Quite obvious that the issue has been answered, and there is little left to discuss (uness one wants to just repeat disroven assertions).I see that nothing has changed. It's the same old same old...I expected that. This music issue is unsolvable this side of glory. The only value I see in debating the topic is the sharpening of your personal position and the opportunity to think outside the box. That's a good thing.
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/724/7.html#000096Originally posted by Daniel:
Aaron...would you please post my Romans 14 post you reference above...thanks. I don't remember it. Please refresh me. Thanks.