Continuing the eschatology

[agedman]

Of course not. On another site someone listed many writers before 1800 who he said were dispensationalist. Among them John Newton. Well it seems that he gathered all the names that mentioned dispensation and included them. Well those that studied at the time seemed to mention two dispensation, The Old and the New (Testaments or covenants, if you will.)

I don’t regularly visit other boards. This one satisfies what need I have to express my views, and there are good scholars on this board that I trust will with kind sincerity redirect me, especially as I grow weaker in languages and may post in error.

Therefore, I am unknowing of any list.

Many people such as Newton and Edwards used what we would term dispensations as a tool to divide the Scriptures. Personally, I would think that even the ancient scrolls reflected that thinking because they are referred to as the Law (Torah) and the prophets. Two separate groupings from different eras.

There may be good research that would document folks like John Newton and Jonathan Edwards held premillennialism views. What I have read of both would certainly show that they embraced a future millennium in which believers ruled with Christ.

I haven’t read (that I immediately recall) either of them remarking about a rapture or believers escaping the tribulation. But I could be mistaken.

 

[David Kent]

I suggest you study history as well. The prophesied eschatological events are totally-absent from it.

Remember what the word "eschatology" means. That's what this thread is about.

Partial preterism is JUST-AS-INCORRECT as full preterism. JESUS HIMSELF proves it. If the great trib has already occurred, He is long-overdue, as He said,
Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

But it did. It was "on that generation." I am sorry you just do not understand either Bible teaching or its relation to History.

You just cling to the Jesuit futurist teaching and bend your facts to fit.

 

[prophecy70]

So, you don't believe those events will occur?

I am sorry as well that you don't understand the question presented before you. You keep repeating your only knowledge of the subject.

Im not a complete preterist yet

My view of revelation and "the man of sin" Is debateable.


"cometa" pass? They already happened. They were prophecies about judgment already fulfilled.

The OT prophecies have already occurred yes. Why are you answering my question with a question. Im asking you to explain these events when they occurred, was it literal or metaphorically?
Isaiah 34:5
5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven;
Indeed it shall come down on Edom,
And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

Did his sword really come down?

Isaiah 19:1
A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.

Did he really ride a cloud and come?


Matthew 24:
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Does he physically have to come in that verse?

 

[asterisktom]

I suggest you study history as well. The prophesied eschatological events are totally-absent from it.

Remember what the word "eschatology" means. That's what this thread is about.

Partial preterism is JUST-AS-INCORRECT as full preterism. JESUS HIMSELF proves it. If the great trib has already occurred, He is long-overdue, as He said,
Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

The reason why I don't usually respond to you, Robycop, is that your answer is basically always the same: You act as if the lack of physical phenomena disproves my position. These events you cite are not as you describe them. Consider the (supposed) cosmic events that Peter describes in Acts 2. He spoke of them as having already happened.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Matthew 24:
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Does he physically have to come in that verse?

The verse says people are going to see Him. Nobody saw Him in AD 70.
Also, don't take just one verse; take it in conjunction with another. Acts 1:11 says He will come physically.

 

[agedman]

ALL Christians did, Otherwise they would have been disobedient to the Command of Jesus. This was in AD 66 when Cestius withdrew his army from Jerusalem when almost on the point of victory. "The most serious military blunder in History."

I had to smile at this post

This is not criticism, but more often when folks reflect upon the early church there is a sense that they were automatically responsive and obedient to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Friends, you got to know, they were no better than the modern church. Few took and do take the Scriptures as valid in every aspect of their life.

If they did, the typical church of both our and their day would be most uncharacteristic of what is seen in the letters of the Apostles, and what is witnessed, today.

 

[prophecy70]

The verse says people are going to see Him. Nobody saw Him in AD 70.
Also, don't take just one verse; take it in conjunction with another. Acts 1:11 says He will come physically.

Im simply asking robycop3 to explain what he believes happened in the OT verses. Im not giving a position on what I think here.

 

[prophecy70]

The reason why I don't usually respond to you, Robycop, is that your answer is basically always the same: You act as if the lack of physical phenomena disproves my position. These events you cite are not as you describe them. Consider the (supposed) cosmic events that Peter describes in Acts 2. He spoke of them as having already happened.

Exactly the way I see it, "Sun not giving Light Moon to blood", only describes major events. Judgment, and the Major event of Pentecost. Just like there is Multiple "Day of the "Lords"

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The closure time is given as Pacific\San Francisco Time. IIRC, that's GMT +8. So, I reckon closure for those in the Home Counties is 2300 local.

I came late to this thread and haven't finished reading it yet.

 

[tyndale1946]

I came late to this thread and haven't finished reading it yet.

Don't be upset, just do as others do start another one... This conversation is far from dead... You just have to know how to play the game... Brother Glen

 

[David Kent]

And then, there was PLENTY of time to flee before Titus came with another army.

Yes but the command was to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. (The abomination of Desolation)

The Jews attacked and defeated Cestius, and it was certain that the Romans wouldn't take that kindly. At that time the Germans had revolted and there were revolts all over the Roman world, so much so that Nero considered suicide, There were many wars and rumours or wars, but Vespasian put down the Germans and Nero brought him back to take over the Judean campaign. And the rest is history, as they say.

After Vespasian arrived then Jerusalem was shut up. As this was at the time of the Passover, the population was inflated by visitors for the feast.

 

[David Kent]

Don't be upset, just do as others do start another one... This conversation is far from dead... You just have to know how to play the game... Brother Glen

I have finished reading it now Bro.

 

[David Kent]

I have said a number of times that Futurism is a product of the Jesuits.

 

[prophecy70]

Someone else can restart it if they want. I dont have to. Then we can go from there.

 

[David Kent]

I used to be on a site called Trail of Blood. They recommended a publication by that name.If you read it, they consider the Montanists to be true Baptists, but they had a number of strange teachings including origination the theory of two types of sins, later taught by the RCC.
They also latterly taught that Marriage is wrong.

 

[agedman]

The reason why I don't usually respond to you, Robycop, is that your answer is basically always the same: You act as if the lack of physical phenomena disproves my position. These events you cite are not as you describe them. Consider the (supposed) cosmic events that Peter describes in Acts 2. He spoke of them as having already happened.

I’m certain that when Peter spoke, it was to people who new exactly the context of the statements.

The only objective Peter had was establishing exactly who he was exalting.

There were then, more than one person who proclaimed to be the messiah. The typical Jews looked for such a one who would release them from the Romans.

Peters message was not “Look at the prophets as fulfilled,” rather “See, this same person the prophets said was coming, you crucified....”


The message was to identify just who was the messiah as distinguished from all other pretenders.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes but the command was to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. (The abomination of Desolation)

The Jews attacked and defeated Cestius, and it was certain that the Romans wouldn't take that kindly. At that time the Germans had revolted and there were revolts all over the Roman world, so much so that Nero considered suicide, There were many wars and rumours or wars, but Vespasian put down the Germans and Nero brought him back to take over the Judean campaign. And the rest is history, as they say.

After Vespasian arrived then Jerusalem was shut up. As this was at the time of the Passover, the population was inflated by visitors for the feast.

One thing for certain-- The events of AD 70 did not come like a thief in the night (Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Revelation 15:16 etc).

 

[prophecy70]

One thing for certain-- The events of AD 70 did not come like a thief in the night (Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Revelation 15:16 etc).

I don't know about that. Ask the 1.1 million jews that died.

 

[TCassidy]

The reason why I don't usually respond to you, Robycop, is that your answer is basically always the same: You act as if the lack of physical phenomena disproves my position.

The reason he always gives the same response is that you can't answer it. If Christ returned in 70 AD it would be the second most momentous event in the history of mankind (the first being His first advent). Yet, for some strange reason nobody seems to have noticed it. Not a single word in written history. Not a single painting depicting the momentous event. No record at all. None.

Consider the (supposed) cosmic events that Peter describes in Acts 2. He spoke of them as having already happened.

Nope. The sun μεταστραφησεται (shall be turned), Future, passive, indicative. In fact all the verbs are future.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I don't know about that. Ask the 1.1 million jews that died.

A thief doesn't show up several months before the event.