Decisional Regeneration

Sorry Allen; didn't know you were on this early.

 

It is your words ReformedBaptist, maybe you misspoke, but you said you received salvation or was "born again" and then believed. Unless you don't believe "born again" is saved.

 

That was from a thread TCGreek began on it "A Mystery to Me..." and I type past a word that is left out. It should state 'some Calvinist" and not simply "Calvinists", implying all. Sorry about that.

I did address it somewhat though in my post here. If God makes us do and be conformed to His Son, then how come we still sin and desire those things contrary to the will of God and our new nature?

 

Good morning, Bro. Bob.

RB can speak for himself, but it is a distinctive of Reformed theology to separate regeneration and salvation.

Regeneration, or "born again" is a work of the Holy Spirit in changing one's heart from stone to flesh, so that the recipient can respond in repentance and faith and be saved.

I know you do not agree with this, but the distinction is a common Calvinist belief.

Understanding this distinction will help us keep from talking past each other.

 

No Prob, Bob. :tongue3:

I work the grave yard shift and then it takes a few hours to wind down so I can sleep. I don't get on here very often lately, much less in the early morning hours. But this thread has been constructive and peacable (as far I have seen) thus far.

Very seldom do these come along :laugh:

 

True, but RB stated salvation and born again are the same thing. And that them being considered seperate is odd to him.

 

Thanks for answering, but that is against scripture also.

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

Yet EVERY MAN FEELS the wind. And if you follow the "wind"/Spirit with your life, you will see where it is going.

What we DO have control over is whether we will follow the wind or not.

skypair

 

(My responses in bold print)

1. The wind = the Holy Spirit Yes

2. It blows = the new birth No, it blows = preaching of the Word


3. where it listeth (wills) = The "it" is the Holy Spirit, He blows (causes the new birth) as He wills.[/quote] Listeth = comes and goes. Doesn't blow every day upon you.

4. hear sound = we see the effect of the Holy Spirit's work. "hear" = calling. You KNOW that! Why do you change the meaning here when you insist it is calling elsewhere???

5. Can't tell where it comes or where it goes = It is mysterious and uncontrollable we don't really comprehend its operation. Unless, being born again, you follow it.

One thing wind doesn't do is force you to go with it -- no one is "blown away" by it without their own volition.

6.) So is everyone who is born of the spirit. Yes, they come and go through your life -- they are going somewhere that you don't know unless you follow (as you have Calvin, for instance. This is where the faith walk becomes "tricky." You have to have the Spirit to follow the Spirit.).

This startled me when I was more "arminian" in my thinking. I wondered, how can this be? All I have to do is pray an earnest prayer to Jesus and I will be born again. Um ---- the "wind" is this way, buddy. :jesus: MANY texts say "RECEIVE" (Even John 1:12 that you cite.). Then you can follow.

There ARE other "winds" blowing, BTW. Don't get confused. They are "violent" winds that DO carry you along like a hurricane or tornado! They are called "world" and may wrest your "house" from its very foundation!

And let us further add to our understanding:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born ... of God." John 1:12-13 It is certainly God that grants the new birth to those who genuinely believe, RB. And the faith that He gives them certainly comes by "RECEIVING" and "BELIEVING on His name" according to the verse you cite. I don't know how you get around those 2 things PRECEDING the new "sons of God" birth, but you do!!

skypair

 

RB, I implore you -- step aside so people can be saved! Quite obviously there is another "wind" blowing into your life and IT is "hot as hades" (as you admit to getting emotional about it)! Salvation and the new birth are not truly "believed" if they are not "received." 1Cor 15:1 -- "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received... By which also ye are saved ... For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures..."

And I will with all the strength God gives me, if He is willing, throw it back.

You followed the wrong "wind," RB. It sounded so much like the original that you "had no root ... but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended." Mt 13:21

Who did offend you, RB?? What "wind" was it swept you off your Foundation into this hellhole of a remonstrance??

That's exactly what you did --- and exactly what you are denying to anyone else who might desire entrance into the "kingdom," Mt 23:13!

You're been "born again" to Christ and then "born again" to Calvin, I'm sorry to say.

skypair

 

Please --- I say what I see. I could in no wise take communion "worthily" if I didn't wash your feet first. And you may become "sick and many perish" if you don't let me wash them.

Did Peter not say first, "Thou shalt never wash my feet" (John 13:8) but then later "Wash not my feet only but my hands and my head!?" He, like you, was very fervent. He, like you, did not know what Jesus meant at first.

I have tried to show you that in Calvinism, you deny the salvation to others that you yourself received. You WERE regenerated before you had faith but you were not regenerate when you received. And now you deny even the reception of Christ as the means of salvation. Woe unto you!

skypair

 

I was, indeed, composing when you posted. We're crossing posts so I will procede to the next thread.

skypair

 

1. The Greek word behind "account" or "reckon" or "credit" is logizomai and it is an accounting term, dealing with numbers.

2. It is not to be confused with our use of "taking credit" for something done. Paul has nullified such argument (Rom 4:2-4).

3. Notice that "credit" is in the passive, signifying something done to you. God does the reckoning, precising because He is the one that give the faith to begin with.

4. The capitalizing in the NASB is to show that it's an OT quote.

5. Because it glorifies God, the one who enabled the believing.

6. Paul says, "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" Phil 1:6 (ESV) and then,

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" Phil 2:12-13 (ESV, emphasis mine)

7. Please, do not confuse my admittance to a mystery as confusion. I am happy to say I don't know how everything works.

8. If you, on the other hand, have figured everything out, give God thanks and glory.

 

1. Paul says, "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ" (Phil. 1:6).

2. "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" Phil 2:12-13 (ESV, emphasis mine)

3. On the one hand, we are working out our salvation in sanctification, and on the other hand, God is working in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

4. Yet we sin. Take that up with Paul. This is the mystery I am referring to. If you have figured it out without misreading Paul, then praise God for that.