Decisional Regeneration

[ReformedBaptist]

RB,

Okay, soooooooo, is your point that God was sort of ramping up Cornelius to get him to the point where he could be regenerated? Is the idea here that the prayers and good works of Cornelius were a result of a sort of pre-regeneration preparation? If that's the case would it then follow that whenever we see prayers and good works they are the ramping up of an elect individual, if not the works of a regnerated individual?

To answer your question - I definitely was/am of the free-will camp, but I hope open minded enough that if you had pointed a scriptural smoking gun in my face I would have had to reconsider my position. I hope the same could be said for you, RB, that if I had been able to make a good enough argument you would have reconsidered your position.

Les

Ramping up cornelius, and now this is the modis operandi. I don't think so. But I think God the Father teaches every man who comes to Christ (because Jesus said so) and it doesn't seem surprising that there would be some form of godliness in them.

When you say you are in the free-will camp, what is your belief on free-will. Do you believe in absolute libertarian free-will?

When we say we are reformed we are always reforming, by the Word of God, to be conformed to His image and in our beliefs. So yes, I am open to change my position based on Scripture and plain reason.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Okay, back to responsibilty:

In Calvinist/Reformed thought, are we in control of, i.e. responsible for, our eternal destiny or not?

Thanks,

Les

Simply, men are responsible for their actions. God determines destiny.

 

[skypair]

Les --- you're doing a good job! :applause:

BUt watch out for this type snare: RB -- "But I think God the Father teaches every man who comes to Christ (because Jesus said so) and it doesn't seem surprising that there would be some form of godliness in them." See, by saying this, RB is saying that the "elect" have some "merit" that God would choose them but they can't say it is "merit." And they certainly can't say there is anything in man, even if God put it there, that let's MAN make a "regenerational decision" though prayers heard in heaven and good works known to God would prove the contrary!

Oh. and changing their minds? I been around long enough to know that the changing's got to be on your side which, when you do as I did, still gets you nowhere. These guys drop out of "common ground" threads as soon as they see they are cornered.

skypair

 

[TCGreek]

Just don't add up.


Here are some who "knew" God and then their foolish heart was darkened. (They Glorified Him not as God)

Then we must ask ourselves, Was the knowledge of God gain from nature a knowledge designed to save the attainer?

 

[lbaker]

Ramping up cornelius, and now this is the modis operandi. I don't think so. But I think God the Father teaches every man who comes to Christ (because Jesus said so) and it doesn't seem surprising that there would be some form of godliness in them.

When you say you are in the free-will camp, what is your belief on free-will. Do you believe in absolute libertarian free-will?

When we say we are reformed we are always reforming, by the Word of God, to be conformed to His image and in our beliefs. So yes, I am open to change my position based on Scripture and plain reason.

Modus operandi???

Not sure what you mean by absolute libertarian free will. Briefly stated, my understanding is that we are free to choose to obey God or not. While the Spirit may draw us, we still have the freedom to say "No, MY will be done."

I feel like I'm trying to nail Jello to the wall - okay, so are you saying that folks who are as yet unregenerate are Godly? What happened to the unregenerate can't make any move toward God? What am I missing?

 

[lbaker]

Simply, men are responsible for their actions. God determines destiny.

God determines destiny regardless of our actions? There is no connection between our actions and our destiny? Have I got that right?

Les

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Just don't add up.


Here are some who "knew" God and then their foolish heart was darkened. (They Glorified Him not as God)

Then we must ask ourselves, Was the knowledge of God gain from nature a knowledge designed to save the attainer

No Sir, God is always there, its just according to scripture He is there for all.

Job 32:8But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

 

[TCGreek]

No Sir, God is always there, it just according to scripture He is there for all.

Job 32:8But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

To what extent then did the fall of Adam affect man?

 

[Brother Bob]

It brought the natural death upon all mankind and the natural and spiritual on himself. I do not believe infants have sin that causes them to be subject to the second death. The soul that sinneth shall die, if born dead, then it could not die.

 

[TCGreek]

It brought the natural death upon all mankind and the natural and spiritual on himself. I do not believe infants have sin that causes them to be subject to the second death. The soul that sinneth shall die, if born dead, then it could not die.

1. Neither do I believe that infants are culpable for their sins.

2. In Adam all of us sinned. And when we reach that age of accountability, we become culpable.

 

[Brother Bob]

1. Neither do I believe that infants are culpable for their sins.

2. In Adam all of us sinned. And when we reach that age of accountability, we become culpable.

You know, it says where there is no law, sin is not imputed and I have always believed but hard to explain, than when one reaches that age, he doesn't then go out in sin, but becomes accountable for all he has ever done.
Does that make sense to you?

 

[TCGreek]

You know, it says where there is no law, sin is not imputed and I have always believed but hard to explain, than when one reaches that age, he doesn't then go out in sin, but becomes accountable for all he has ever done.
Does that make sense to you?

1. I don't know if it is a recalling of his sins before he reached that age of accountability.

2. I believe at the age of accountability his sinful nature that is always there "kicks in."

 

[webdog]

My question was sincere, not rhetorical. But to answer the question with a question is a way not to answer a question. :smilewinkgrin:

It worked well for Jesus

 

[webdog]

Okay, back to responsibilty:

In Calvinist/Reformed thought, are we in control of, i.e. responsible for, our eternal destiny or not?

Thanks,

Les

Absolutely. Whether we use faith we are born with, or are given...it's still ours, meaning the calvinistic argument that we hinge our own salvation is a moot point either way. Whether I cut down a tree using my chainsaw, or my neighbors, I'm still the one cutting it down.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

God determines destiny regardless of our actions? There is no connection between our actions and our destiny? Have I got that right?

Les

Who are you to reply to God O man, why have you made me thus?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It worked well for Jesus

Are you saying Jesus avoiding answering questions? Weird. He is the Son of God.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Absolutely. Whether we use faith we are born with, or are given...it's still ours, meaning the calvinistic argument that we hinge our own salvation is a moot point either way. Whether I cut down a tree using my chainsaw, or my neighbors, I'm still the one cutting it down.

This is not what decisional regeneration is. DR is the belief that there is a process man does to cause one to be born of God. It is simply contrary to Scripture.

 

[Amy.G]

This is not what decisional regeneration is. DR is the belief that there is a process man does to cause one to be born of God. It is simply contrary to Scripture.

Well, whether one is a Calvinist or a free willie (or whatever :tongue3: ), believing that man causes himself to be born again is just wrong.

 

[webdog]

Are you saying Jesus avoiding answering questions? Weird. He is the Son of God.

I'm saying Jesus answered questions with questions...something you state one does to avoid answering a question. That is false.

 

[webdog]

This is not what decisional regeneration is. DR is the belief that there is a process man does to cause one to be born of God. It is simply contrary to Scripture.

"Believe and you will be saved" sounds awfully like a "process" one must go through to be born again.