Decisional Regeneration

[npetreley]

Romans 9 isn't about salvation.

LOL, yeah, and the Bible isn't about Christ.

 

[TCGreek]

The fact is Scripture makes no mention of man controling the wind or the Spirit...that is something Gill and TC stated it meant. Please supply where the text in context is even hinting that man is contoling either the wind or the Spirit.
Albert Barnes's commentary (calvinist, btw) even agrees with my assesment of 3:8. It has nothing to do with man contoling the wind or the Spirit...because it is just not there...

The emphasis is on the work of the Spirit and its effect on the individual, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, but that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

 

[webdog]

LOL, yeah, and the Bible isn't about Christ.

The Bible is about Christ? I thought the Bible was about man's problem and God's solution.
Romans 9 is about Israel, btw. Allan is correct. 9-11 deals with Israel as a nation.

 

[webdog]

The emphasis is on the work of the Spirit and its affect on the individual, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, but that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

I agree, in the context of the one already born again (as 3:6 qualifies). It has nothing to do with man's contol over the wind or Spirit, though.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

 

[npetreley]

The Bible is about Christ? I thought the Bible was about man's problem and God's solution.

Spoken like a true free-willer.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Man has a part in his salvation

This statement has aroused my zeal of the glory of God. So, if I be accused of being too harsh, please forgive me. I am greatly zealous of the glory of God.

I do not mean, by quoting such a short portion of your reply, to diminish or ignore what you have written. It was well-thought out and apparantly well-meant. And I desire to reply to every part of it, but its getting late.

This idea here represented, that man has a part in his salvation, is in my opinion straight out of the pit of hell. And I will with all the strength God gives me, if He is willing, throw it back.

It is purely and completely refuted in the Word of God, namely "SALVATION IS OF THE LORD" Man does NOT have part in GOD'S salvation, and if man has a salvation that is his own, then he does not have the Lord's. But I think many are just inconsistent arminians as I was. Truly saved, but suffering from poor theology.

This idea that man adds to the grace of God is more in common with popery than biblical christianity. It must be confronted and opposed. It robs God of the glory due his name and gives to man, who already is ful of himself, something of which to boast before God.

Let us put away from ourselves such things. And give God the glory alone.

As for me, I had NO PART in God's salvation of me. Before I was even born God made a distinction. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." And this that God's choice may stand without respect to me doing good or evil. But the choice was made purely and soley from His own good pleasure. He did this, because it seemed good to Him to do so.

And if He did it not, He would be glorified also. I am a most worthy candidate for the flames of hell, and fully deserve the full measure of the wrath of God to be poured out on me. I loved darkness rather than the light. I hated good, and loved evil. I chose my own way, and from my youth my thoughts and desires were evil continually.

Yet by grace I was made to come alive in Christ. He transferred me from darkness to light. When His light shone in my darkness I looked and saw Jesus and believed. I turned from all my wickedness and confessed my sins to God. And He bid me to follow Him.

If this is not the testimony of every born again child of God, then it is my PRIVATE opinion that I am in doubt of that man's salvation. Such a salvation other than this I find not in Holy Scripture or my own heart.

I will write more on the morrow. Methinks I should go to bed. lol

 

[webdog]

Spoken like a true free-willer.

Double huh

 

[ReformedBaptist]

The Bible is about Christ? I thought the Bible was about man's problem and God's solution.
Romans 9 is about Israel, btw. Allan is correct. 9-11 deals with Israel as a nation.

You are joking right? About the Bible being about man's problem, God's solution, and not about Christ?

 

[TCGreek]

I agree, in the context of the one already born again (as 3:6 qualifies). It has nothing to do with man's contol over the wind or Spirit, though.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

1. Barnes is correct when he says, "Everyone that is born of the Spirit is, in some respects, like the effects of the wind. You see it not, you cannot discern its laws, but you see its effects," and you know therefore that it does exist and operate." (emphasis mine).

2. The effects of being born of the Spirit is man cry for salvation in faith and repentance.

 

[TCGreek]

This statement has aroused my zeal of the glory of God. So, if I be accused of being too harsh, please forgive me. I am greatly zealous of the glory of God.

I do not mean, by quoting such a short portion of your reply, to diminish or ignore what you have written. It was well-thought out and apparantly well-meant. And I desire to reply to every part of it, but its getting late.

This idea here represented, that man has a part in his salvation, is in my opinion straight out of the pit of hell. And I will with all the strength God gives me, if He is willing, throw it back.

It is purely and completely refuted in the Word of God, namely "SALVATION IS OF THE LORD" Man does NOT have part in GOD'S salvation, and if man has a salvation that is his own, then he does not have the Lord's. But I think many are just inconsistent arminians as I was. Truly saved, but suffering from poor theology.

This idea that man adds to the grace of God is more in common with popery than biblical christianity. It must be confronted and opposed. It robs God of the glory due his name and gives to man, who already is ful of himself, something of which to boast before God.

Let us put away from ourselves such things. And give God the glory alone.

As for me, I had NO PART in God's salvation of me. Before I was even born God made a distinction. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." And this that God's choice may stand without respect to me doing good or evil. But the choice was made purely and soley from His own good pleasure. He did this, because it seemed good to Him to do so.

And if He did it not, He would be glorified also. I am a most worthy candidate for the flames of hell, and fully deserve the full measure of the wrath of God to be poured out on me. I loved darkness rather than the light. I hated good, and loved evil. I chose my own way, and from my youth my thoughts and desires were evil continually.

Yet by grace I was made to come alive in Christ. He transferred me from darkness to light. When His light shone in my darkness I looked and saw Jesus and believed. I turned from all my wickedness and confessed my sins to God. And He bid me to follow Him.

If this is not the testimony of every born again child of God, then it is my PRIVATE opinion that I am in doubt of that man's salvation. Such a salvation other than this I find not in Holy Scripture or my own heart.

I will write more on the morrow. Methinks I should go to bed. lol

Man having a part in his salvation cannot be supported from Scripture.

 

[Allan]

The testimony of the Son of God as to how someone is born again.


John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Please harmonize, or explain, how this teaching complements the idea that man initiates the new birth by his choice. How can the wind blows where it wills, and man cause the new birth when he wills?

We probably shouldn't leave out John 1:12-13 either.

John 3:8 does NOT address HOW someone is born again.
If you will note the FULL passage of John 3:8

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

If the passage stopped where you do, then an argument might be made. However, it states that every BORN AGAIN (saved) person is or is just like the wind that blows where it does when trying to be understood by the world. They don't know why we do what we do nor go where we go. The world knows the wind is there they just do not grasp why it does what it does.

 

[Allan]

This statement has aroused my zeal of the glory of God. So, if I be accused of being too harsh, please forgive me. I am greatly zealous of the glory of God.

I do not mean, by quoting such a short portion of your reply, to diminish or ignore what you have written. It was well-thought out and apparantly well-meant. And I desire to reply to every part of it, but its getting late.

This idea here represented, that man has a part in his salvation, is in my opinion straight out of the pit of hell. And I will with all the strength God gives me, if He is willing, throw it back.

It is purely and completely refuted in the Word of God, namely "SALVATION IS OF THE LORD" Man does NOT have part in GOD'S salvation, and if man has a salvation that is his own, then he does not have the Lord's. But I think many are just inconsistent arminians as I was. Truly saved, but suffering from poor theology.

This idea that man adds to the grace of God is more in common with popery than biblical christianity. It must be confronted and opposed. It robs God of the glory due his name and gives to man, who already is ful of himself, something of which to boast before God.

Let us put away from ourselves such things. And give God the glory alone.

As for me, I had NO PART in God's salvation of me. Before I was even born God made a distinction. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." And this that God's choice may stand without respect to me doing good or evil. But the choice was made purely and soley from His own good pleasure. He did this, because it seemed good to Him to do so.

And if He did it not, He would be glorified also. I am a most worthy candidate for the flames of hell, and fully deserve the full measure of the wrath of God to be poured out on me. I loved darkness rather than the light. I hated good, and loved evil. I chose my own way, and from my youth my thoughts and desires were evil continually.

Yet by grace I was made to come alive in Christ. He transferred me from darkness to light. When His light shone in my darkness I looked and saw Jesus and believed. I turned from all my wickedness and confessed my sins to God. And He bid me to follow Him.

If this is not the testimony of every born again child of God, then it is my PRIVATE opinion that I am in doubt of that man's salvation. Such a salvation other than this I find not in Holy Scripture or my own heart.

I will write more on the morrow. Methinks I should go to bed. lol

Your zeal does not offend me for it is my zeal which has spurred me to write to begin with against the truths of scripture so vehemently denied.

So in light of your responce I will ask you only one question dear brother:

Did you have to believe in order to be saved?


BTW - No one except you has at anytime insinuated that man ADDS anything to Grace. But it is by Grace THROUGH Faith that we are saved, my friend.

EDITTED IN -->> From your own testimony and or words:

I looked and saw Jesus and believed. I turned from all my wickedness and confessed my sins to God

I do not take this portion to flaunt you as saying saved yourself, but as noted even you affirm 'you believed' and 'you turned'. Gods saving us is done wholely and completely by God to and for those who will believe. God saves man. But the part played by man regarding salvation is not in the act of saving nor of the power which saves but believing the the who has stated that HE and He alone will save them.

 

[Allan]

Man having a part in his salvation cannot be supported from Scripture.

So then you were saved dear brother, having never beleived?

 

[TCGreek]

So then you were saved dear brother, having never beleived?

1. When I awoke to my need for the Savior, faith was given to me and I used that faith.

2. Even the faith that I had was not of my own doing, it too was a gift.

 

[Allan]

1. Barnes is correct when he says, "Everyone that is born of the Spirit is, in some respects, like the effects of the wind. You see it not, you cannot discern its laws, but you see its effects," and you know therefore that it does exist and operate." (emphasis mine).

2. The effects of being born of the Spirit is man cry for salvation in faith and repentance.

But you differ from Reformedbaptists view regarding regeneration/born again. He has stated to me (becuase I asked specifically for he view on this in another thread), born again is the same as one who is saved.

 

[Allan]

1. When I awoke to my need for the Savior, faith was given to me and I used that faith.

2. Even the faith that I had was not of my own doing, it too was a gift.

Noted brother, but here's the rub. Regardless of if God gave you faith or not the fact still remains my friend that if YOU had not believed, you would NOT be saved.

God will NOT save you until YOU believe.

 

[TCGreek]

But you differ from Reformedbaptists view regarding regeneration/born again. He has stated to me (becuase I asked specifically for he view on this in another thread), born again is the same as one who is saved.

RB is a very thoughtful brother and he will have to answer you on that matter in the light of what I said. But I cannot answer for him.

 

[TCGreek]

Noted brother, but here's the rub. Regardless of if God gave you faith or not the fact still remains my friend that if YOU had not believed, you would NOT be saved.

God will NOT save you until YOU believe.

And that I do not deny, but the faith to use was given to me; therefore, I cannot take credit for it.

 

[Allan]

RB is a very thoughtful brother and he will have to answer you on that matter in the light of what I said. But I cannot answer for him.

I thought about that after I wrote it.
So I went back to find the thread. Here is the name:

Faith, before or after regeneration. (In the General Baptist section)
It is post 34.

Here is the last paragraph in answer to my questioning of is regeneration the same as being saved.

The idea that a regenerate, or born again person, is not "saved" seem utterly strange and odd to me. Would the Lord cause a person to be born again and that person not possess the salvation of the Lord? In order to see the Kingdom of God we must be born again. It is the born again person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, lives holy, abstains from sin, and loves the brethren

 

[Allan]

And that I do not deny, but the faith to use was given to me; therefore, I cannot take credit for it.

Understood, but you DO take 'credit' for using it, right?