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Define Idolatry
- Thread starter JarJo
- Start date
Can't come down much lower than a "cheap" shot can I?
Even if a person in the past assigned a Christian name like Mary to a pagan goddess, that wouldn't affect people of today. When I ask Mary to pray for me, I'm directing it to the mother of Jesus who went to heaven, not to a pagan goddess I've never heard of.
WestminsterMan
New Member
That doesn't matter JarJo. Others know what you believe better than you do.
Besides, I'll bet those who accuse you never dress up like Santa for their kids, or hide Easter eggs while telling their children that the eggs were left by a giant bunny, or let their kids dress up like monsters/demons/Harry Potter characters on Halloween, or tell their kids to leave their lost tooth under the pillow and then lie to them about where the money came from.
WM
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WestminsterMan
New Member
What term (Mary) you identify that spirit with does not change who that spirit is (Queen of Heaven - Jer. 44:25; Cybele). The true Mary, the redeemed spirit in heaven receives no prayers as that would be blasphemy and no glorified spirit blasphemes God.
So how does that work exactly? I say out loud "Dear Mary, Jesus' mother, if you can hear me, please pray for me". Then somehow the message gets diverted to a demon named Cybele who steals my message and turns it into blasphemy? Then God sends me to hell for worshiping Cybele and blaspheming?
Where does false doctrine originate from according to Paul in 1 Timothy 4:1?
1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Do those embracing and teaching those false doctrines realize their source or that they are actually following the leadership of that source? No!
Do they even understand they are fellowshipping with demons when they practice what they are believing? No! Paul tells the Corinthians who thought they were simply sitting down and eating food, (because they disregarded who the food was offered to and what the ritual of eating actually was by demonic designs) they are fellowshipping with demons when practicing pagan rituals:
1 Cor. 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.
Paul admitted that their "gods" they offered the food unto did not exist. Paul admitted that they were not consciously partaking in idolatry and that they consciously denied the existence of such a god. However, in participating in something originated by demons was still fellowshipping with demons whether you consciously recognize it or not.
Praying to created spirits is a demonic doctrine practiced by pagans NOT ONCE supported by either EXAMPLE or PRECEPT in scripture. Prayer to spirit beings in scripture is always directed solely and only to God or to Demons (by pagans).
Hence, you may call your spirit demon "Mary" and you may think you are practicing something religiously acceptable IN YOUR OWN MIND but what you are doing is fellowshipping with demons in worship designed and authored by demons.
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Oh I see, so to sum this up, since the bible doesn't say I should talk to Mary, but I do it anyway, I am inviting evil spirits into my life because I am embracing false doctrines. So now every time I pray the prayers actually go to false gods instead of Jesus and God the Father?
Yes, but more than that. The Bible limits MEDIATORIAL intercessing between men on earth and God in heaven to ONE person - Jesus Christ! You are directly violating this Biblical restriction.
Second, you are directly oppossing ALL Biblical examples of any kind of prayer directed by men ON EARTH to heaven.
Thirdly, you are directly opposing the Model prayer given by Christ who provides no other spirit being in heaven as the address of directed prayer than "Our Father which art IN HEAVEN"!
Fourth, you are directly mimicking exactly what the Bible forbids in addressing CREATED SPIRIT beings (Isa. 8:19).
Fifth, you are directly mimicking BABYLONIAN MYSTERY RELIGIOUS practices of praying to spirits they called "gods" and that is exactly how you venerate Mary, by the terms you call her "Queen of Heaven" "Mother of God" and a ton more that can be listed right off the Catholic websites.
You are worshipping demons when you address departed created spirits you call "saints" (when the Bible calls all believers "saints) and in particularly you are worshipping the demon CYBELE of Rome or DIANNA of the Ephesians or the Roman Madonna or what you call "Mary."
Violating the word of God always bring on us consequences!
per Apostle paul, ONLY the Man Jesus qualified to be our mediator between the father and us, as he alone can do such, being the sin bearer and being God/man!
IF one goes to mary or one of the RCC saints...
NONE of them can hear you, none will intercede for you, and in fact can be living oneself open to having form of demonic activity enterinto your life, as just might be granting the devil a foothold freely into your life!
just do what the Bible commands us to do, where God is silent, do NOT add to Him!
That sounds really serious. Hopefully God would understand that I just misunderstood how things work and didn't mean any harm.
good news is that IF you were doing such in ignorance of the implications, than the Lord would protect and preserve you fully, but now that you would know not to do such...
Would need to stop addressing any other persons other then Jesus!
But what if I don't really believe you guys?
WestminsterMan
New Member
Well, that might be true IF the person was asking for a creature to mediate between God and man. Fortunately, the prayer is a request is for intercession - big diff.
It has been shown that there are different types of prayer. Clearly, you don't agree. So what?
Then you cannot pray to Jesus can you. Hmmm....
19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
Mediums and spiritists - that is a warning against using these occult practices. Further, notice the word "consult" - which is indicative of devination or trying to get information about the future from the spirit world. That is certainly not what is going on with faithful Catholics.
To ask for intercessory prayer from one who is believed to be in heaven is technically no different than asking for intercessory prayer from someone still on Earth. Both are alive - both are members of the body of Christ. Do you believe that those in heaven stop being members of that body when once they arrive? Further, do you think that creatures cannot hear us when they pass on? Satan and his demons can certainly hear us and they are creatures. Hmmm….
Simply because you disagree with what Catholics call Mary, doesn't mean that venerating (honoring) her automatically places the practice into the realm of "mimicking BABYLONIAN MYSTERY RELIGIOUS." That is your opinion.
Do you honor your father and mother - because if you do, then by your statement, you'd better stop. Christians have been honoring saints from the beginning. Just visit the catacombs in Rome. You know - the place where the earliest Christians hid from Roman persecution?
Hey - make up your mind. Which one is it? Is it CYBELE of Rome, or is it DIANNA of the Ephesians, or is it or the Roman Madonna? Right...
WM
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Would NOT be disagreeing against us , as you would be against God Himself!
ANY BIBLICAl example where God allowed/condoned ANY prayers to be made to ANY other than Himself though?
please list those verses!
But what if I don't realize it. I did my best to figure it out, I disagree with you guys, probably wrong on somethings and right on others, did my best.
WestminsterMan
New Member
Really - how do you know that? Are creatures in the spirit world unable to hear us? What about demons - they can hear us and they are creatures too.
WM
WestminsterMan
New Member
No need to - not everything is IN scripture. Besides I don't hold to your limited definition of "pray".
WM