Demonic physical manifestations

[Squidward]

I had one experience back in 2000. A new apartment building the wife and I rented from when we first got married. These units weren't stacked in levels, but a single floor apartment with four units side by side.

One night at about 11:30pm I crawled into bed and had been laying there for about 5 minutes still awake. My wife was at work so I was alone. I was laying on my side facing away from the bedroom door. Suddenly I felt a cold chill on the back of my neck only and felt like the hair on the back of my neck standing. It was almost instinctive that I sat up and turned to look at the door, I can't explain why I did, I just felt to do so when I felt this chill. I saw what looked like a black mass or shadow about four feet tall and 3-4 feet wide slowly moving along the foot of the bed. I then shouted "hey" and it suddenly picked up speed. All I could do then was roll over, cover my head under the blankets and start calling on God. After about 20-30 seconds I worked up the nerve to look again. Nothing there, I felt at peace, slept just fine the rest of the night. I never had another experience at that apratment again. In fact, that is the only experience I have ever had in my life.

In the late 90s I kept having a recurring dream that would horrify me and wke me up. This happened about ten times within a 12-14 month period. Same dream. I'm driving my pickup on a backroad connecting two towns, one in which I lived. This road has been famous around the area for having multiple fatal accidents. I would be driving in the middle of the day, then suddenly a very scary face wwould appear in my rear view mirror, my arms and whole body would be pinned against the seat, I'd lose my breath and couldn't scream and this face would start laughing as the truck would suddenly veer into an oncoming vehicle or into some of the swampy parts along that road. I would wake up before any kind of collision or impact. Don't know if dreams are influenced or just a psychological explanation. Just weird and scary.

 

[webdog]

Sounds usually can be explained; drafts of air from open windows, vents leading to other parts of the house, etc..

Shadows can only come about when a light is shone on a solid object.

Naturally, that is true. Supernaturally, we don't know how. Naturally a man cannot walk on water. Supernaturally he can. Naturally 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish cannot feed thousands. Supernaturally they can.

Children laughing loud enough to be heard through an insulated attic waking my wife and I cannot be explained naturally.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Too bad Harry Houdini isn't alive.

He visited many "haunted houses" in his lifetime and always found explanations for sounds and moving objects.

He never found a single house that was actually haunted.

 

[Winman]

Too bad Harry Houdini isn't alive.

He visited many "haunted houses" in his lifetime and always found explanations for sounds and moving objects.

He never found a single house that was actually haunted.

This is not quite the same, Houdini investigated folks who advertised themselves as mediums and were scamming people to make money.

The fact that there are many hoaxes does not prove that real spiritual incidents do not happen on occasion.

I am sure there were skeptics in Jesus's day when he cast out devils.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Houdini also investigated haunted houses.

You can read about his investigations and findings in a book by Ricky Jay called "Learned Pigs & Fireproof Women".

I am sure there were skeptics in Jesus' day. But I find no incidence of Jesus casting devils out of inanimate objects. There were always in living, breathing people.

 

[Winman]

Houdini also investigated haunted houses.

You can read about his investigations and findings in a book by Ricky Jay called "Learned Pigs & Fireproof Women".

I am sure there were skeptics in Jesus' day. But I find no incidence of Jesus casting devils out of inanimate objects. There were always in living, breathing people.

There are incidents of folks seeing spirits that were not inhabiting people in the scriptures. First, there is Eliphaz in the book of Job.

Job 4:12 Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
13 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Eliphaz not only saw a spirit, he heard it speak.

The witch of Endor saw spirits ascending out of the earth.

1 Sam 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


So, here are accounts from scripture of folks seeing spirits that were not inhabiting a body.

 

[webdog]

Too bad Harry Houdini isn't alive.

He visited many "haunted houses" in his lifetime and always found explanations for sounds and moving objects.

He never found a single house that was actually haunted.

I'm glad Houdini is the authority on spiritual matters...

 

[Steadfast Fred]

He isn't the authority on spiritual matters. But in all instances he investigated, he was able to prove the "hauntings" were of man's device or could be explained away by wind, lights, or some other natural occurence.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

There are incidents of folks seeing spirits that were not inhabiting people in the scriptures. First, there is Eliphaz in the book of Job.

Job 4:12 Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
13 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Eliphaz not only saw a spirit, he heard it speak.

The witch of Endor saw spirits ascending out of the earth.

1 Sam 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


So, here are accounts from scripture of folks seeing spirits that were not inhabiting a body.

The image was there, but he could not discern it. That tells me he did not see it, only that he heard it.

As to the witch of Endor, what she saw was a vision. And that vision was not of a spirit. The Hebrew word for what she saw is "elohiym".

Elohiym is never translated as a spirit.

 

[Winman]

The image was there, but he could not discern it. That tells me he did not see it, only that he heard it.

How in the world can you not see an image? That is impossible and a contradiction.

As to the witch of Endor, what she saw was a vision. And that vision was not of a spirit. The Hebrew word for what she saw is "elohiym".

Elohiym is never translated as a spirit.

Well, one of these "elohiym" was Samuel the prophet. Samuel was not a god. This was more than a vision, Samuel and king Saul held a conversation. It was not some sort of hallucination.

Samuel was dead and buried when this conversation took place, Saul spoke to his spirit.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

How in the world can you not see an image? That is impossible and a contradiction.



Well, one of these "elohiym" was Samuel the prophet. Samuel was not a god. This was more than a vision, Samuel and king Saul held a conversation. It was not some sort of hallucination.

Samuel was dead and buried when this conversation took place, Saul spoke to his spirit.

Where do you get that one of those elohiym was Samuel? They passage never says that.

You really need to re-read that passage. Samuel did not come up until AFTER the witch had seen the gods.

 

[Winman]

Where do you get that one of those elohiym was Samuel? They passage never says that.

You really need to re-read that passage. Samuel did not come up until AFTER the witch had seen the gods.

It does say that, read again.

1 Sam 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Examine the conversation. Right after the woman said she saw gods ascending out of the earth, what is the very next thing Saul asked the woman?

Saul asked, "What form is HE of?" Saul understood she was speaking of the spirits of men and wanted to know his appearance. When the woman described this spirit's appearance, immediately Saul recognized it to be Samuel.

So, Samuel was indeed one of these elohiym.

And you need to read this passage again, it mentions the woman seeing Samuel in verse 12 before she speaks of the elohiym in verse 13.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

It does say that, read again.

1 Sam 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Examine the conversation. Right after the woman said she saw gods ascending out of the earth, what is the very next thing Saul asked the woman?

Saul asked, "What form is HE of?" Saul understood she was speaking of the spirits of men and wanted to know his appearance. When the woman described this spirit's appearance, immediately Saul recognized it to be Samuel.

So, Samuel was indeed one of these elohiym.

And you need to read this passage again, it mentions the woman seeing Samuel in verse 12 before she speaks of the elohiym in verse 13.

LOok again. She saw Samuel as an old man, not as a god.

And to say Saul understood she was speaking of the spirits of men when she said 'elohiym' is utterly ridiculous.

Man is never called 'elohiym' in the Bible.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

What you are promoting is Mormonism. It is they who teach that man becomes a god after he dies.

 

[Winman]

What you are promoting is Mormonism. It is they who teach that man becomes a god after he dies.

Go back several posts, I said that Saul was not a god. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Here is exactly what I said a few posts back;

Well, one of these "elohiym" was Samuel the prophet. Samuel was not a god. This was more than a vision, Samuel and king Saul held a conversation. It was not some sort of hallucination.

You should be more careful before you falsely accuse a person. You did not see when I wrote that Samuel is not a god, and you were wrong when you said that the woman saw Samuel after she saw the elohiym.

 

[Winman]

LOok again. She saw Samuel as an old man, not as a god.

And to say Saul understood she was speaking of the spirits of men when she said 'elohiym' is utterly ridiculous.

Man is never called 'elohiym' in the Bible.

You don't get it, the woman was mistaken. She was seeing the spirits of men. She saw Samuel, that is when she shouted. This prompted Saul's question of what this spirit looked like. She described Samuel.

The woman was mistaken when she called these spirits god, she was seeing the spirits of men, particularly Samuel.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Go back several posts, I said that Saul was not a god. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Here is exactly what I said a few posts back;



You should be more careful before you falsely accuse a person. You did not see when I wrote that Samuel is not a god, and you were wrong when you said that the woman saw Samuel after she saw the elohiym.

elohiym is the Hebrew word for gods; not man, not spirits.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You don't get it, the woman was mistaken. She was seeing the spirits of men. She saw Samuel, that is when she shouted. This prompted Saul's question of what this spirit looked like. She described Samuel.

The woman was mistaken when she called these spirits god, she was seeing the spirits of men, particularly Samuel.

It is not the witch of Endor who was mistaken. She saw gods... not spirits. The Hebrew word that the Holy Spirit had man record in the Scriptures was elohiym... which is gods.

Spirits is an entirely different Hebrew word and if she had seen spirits, the Hebrew word for spirits would have been used.

It is not the woman that was mistaken... it is you.

 

[webdog]

elohiym is the Hebrew word for gods; not man, not spirits.

Actually context dictates the meaning, it means spiritual beings in the above passages.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I disagree webdog.

Had the Word meant spirits, it would have used the word for spirits... ruach.