Demonic physical manifestations

[webdog]

I disagree webdog.

Had the Word meant spirits, it would have used the word for spirits... ruach.

Only if polytheism is true.

 

[righteousdude2]

There was a time WHEN....

Not saying you didn't, webdog.

By doing so, you were convinced that there might be forces unseen behind the shadows.

Question? How can something invisible cast a physical shadow?

...I was a big skeptic, like you...then I stood, nearly eyeball-to-eyeball with the guy, who had been murdered in the home we were living in, and it did two things: One - I was scared enough to nearly, wet my pants. Secondly - and most importantly, I believed what my wife had been telling me she'd been seeing, and I began to pay more attention to the supernatural side of our world, and discovered that demons can do things to mess with both the believers and nonbelievers minds. And if an angel can be manifest itself, so can the dark shadows of demons.

There is more than enough evidence present on this topic to support that fact that the dark side of the supernatural world is alive and well, and it will leave us alone when we exercise the authority given us in Jesus's name.

You don't have to believe anything written on these pages. That is your choice, but as for me and my house, we now know that the spiritual warfare Paul talked about is as real as the angelic side of God and heaven. We have been equipped to fight the war going on around us, and I am willing to obey Him and take the authority I've been entrusted with and make sure that people, like yourself, are made aware of this war and how to fight it on a spiritual front. If you choose to disbelieve, I feel sorry for you, but that is your right. Just don't come in here making those of us who know what we know is real, sound like off-the-wall wierdo's.

I am glad that Webdog had the courage to ask his brothers for help in this matter, as that is Scriptural. And, like the others, we are all praying for his family to be safe, in Jesus name and under His authority.

I guess you will never believe until you are eyeball-to-eyeball with a full body manifestation or a dark shadow. Why don't you keep this conversation in your mind and heart and when you are forced to admit the supernatural world is alive and well around you, come back and let us know about your experience. :thumbs:

 

[webdog]

I'm actually pretty surprised there are so many believers that have experienced something similar. I thought I was alone in this. I'm skeptical by nature, but some of these things just cannot be explained by natural causes.

 

[righteousdude2]

To Quote Some Other SYFY Show....

I'm actually pretty surprised there are so many believers that have experienced something similar. I thought I was alone in this. I'm skeptical by nature, but some of these things just cannot be explained by natural causes.

...you are definitely NOT alone!!!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

...I was a big skeptic, like you...then I stood, nearly eyeball-to-eyeball with the guy, who had been murdered in the home we were living in, and it did two things: One - I was scared enough to nearly, wet my pants. Secondly - and most importantly, I believed what my wife had been telling me she'd been seeing, and I began to pay more attention to the supernatural side of our world, and discovered that demons can do things to mess with both the believers and nonbelievers minds. And if an angel can be manifest itself, so can the dark shadows of demons.

There is more than enough evidence present on this topic to support that fact that the dark side of the supernatural world is alive and well, and it will leave us alone when we exercise the authority given us in Jesus's name.

You don't have to believe anything written on these pages. That is your choice, but as for me and my house, we now know that the spiritual warfare Paul talked about is as real as the angelic side of God and heaven. We have been equipped to fight the war going on around us, and I am willing to obey Him and take the authority I've been entrusted with and make sure that people, like yourself, are made aware of this war and how to fight it on a spiritual front. If you choose to disbelieve, I feel sorry for you, but that is your right. Just don't come in here making those of us who know what we know is real, sound like off-the-wall wierdo's.

I am glad that Webdog had the courage to ask his brothers for help in this matter, as that is Scriptural. And, like the others, we are all praying for his family to be safe, in Jesus name and under His authority.

I guess you will never believe until you are eyeball-to-eyeball with a full body manifestation or a dark shadow. Why don't you keep this conversation in your mind and heart and when you are forced to admit the supernatural world is alive and well around you, come back and let us know about your experience. :thumbs:

So much for the rich man died and in hell he lifted up his eyes being in torment, eh? or for the christian, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

righteousdude2 has seen a guy that was murdered...eyeball to eyeball, so both Jesus and Paul must've not been telling the truth.

We've found someone who can prove the Bible to be untrustworthy, I guess.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I do not believe that either satan or any of his devils would appear as some evil entity to scare people. Scripture tells us that satan transforms himself into an angel of light.

He will not appear as a shadow or as an evil entity. He will appear as someone that wants to deceive... not to scare.

And I believe those principalities and powers, spiritual wickedness, also are there to deceive rather than scare.

 

[Winman]

I do not believe that either satan or any of his devils would appear as some evil entity to scare people. Scripture tells us that satan transforms himself into an angel of light.

He will not appear as a shadow or as an evil entity. He will appear as someone that wants to deceive... not to scare.

And I believe those principalities and powers, spiritual wickedness, also are there to deceive rather than scare.

And that is exactly what many people believe. Many folks believe that UFO aliens are here to help us, to prevent us from destroying the world with nuclear weapons or pollution, to stop wars.

Many folks believe ghosts are departed love ones who have come to visit and watch over us.

Look at this list of "UFO religions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_religions

Now, I have seen these things, and I know what I saw, but I was not deceived by them. That doesn't mean that other folks aren't, many are. And there are many who also believe in contact with the spiritual world such as mediums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism

 

[Fred's Wife]

Wow...I believe the "demon under every bush" gang is alive and well....right here on the BB!

Me thinks that some of you guys have been reading too much Frank E. Peretti and Dr. Neil Anderson rather than the Word of God!

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

 

[saturneptune]

Sounds to me like you have a stray cat, raccoon or opossum taking up residence in your home. They can make an awful racket and sound like people moving around.

I know what a cat, opossum, or raccoon sounds like, and they do not sound like a human walking on the floor of an attic. I am in my attic regularly, and there are no animals up there, and there is no way for them to enter the attic. It was only recently I even considered a supernatural explanation, as I am not a person who has ever seen a UFO, ghost, or Mitt Romney telling the truth for that matter. I am not one to believe conspiracy theories. I do not believe Elvis is alive, or that the earth is going to end December 21.

I do not understand with all the evidence in the Bible, especially Christians, would demand a physical explanation for all events.

 

[Winman]

Wow...I believe the "demon under every bush" gang is alive and well....right here on the BB!

Me thinks that some of you guys have been reading too much Frank E. Peretti and Dr. Neil Anderson rather than the Word of God!

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Well, look at Deut 18:11 that you showed. It says we are not to "consult" with familiar spirits. This implies that this can actually be done.

And we have accounts of men having supernatural abilities in the scriptures, Pharaoh's magicians were actually able to duplicate several of the miracles performed by God through Moses.

We also see Simon in Acts 8;

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

Whatever this fellow Simon was doing, it was very convincing, as all the people gave heed and had regard to him and thought he had the power of God.

And the scriptures say he "used" sorcery, he was actually doing these things.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Well, look at Deut 18:11 that you showed. It says we are not to "consult" with familiar spirits. This implies that this can actually be done.

And we have accounts of men having supernatural abilities in the scriptures, Pharaoh's magicians were actually able to duplicate several of the miracles performed by God through Moses.

We also see Simon in Acts 8;

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

Whatever this fellow Simon was doing, it was very convincing, as all the people gave heed and had regard to him and thought he had the power of God.

And the scriptures say he "used" sorcery, he was actually doing these things.

Deuteronomy does tell us not to consult with familiar spirits. But it does not say those spirits can be seen.

 

[saturneptune]

Deuteronomy does tell us not to consult with familiar spirits. But it does not say those spirits can be seen.

The basic reason I believe most if not all of this stuff is demonic, is that I see no Biblical way that a human spirit can wander the earth. They are either with the Lord, or they are not. The only exception to the demonic explanation would be the UFO sightings, as being a real physical event, which is not likely.

 

[Winman]

Deuteronomy does tell us not to consult with familiar spirits. But it does not say those spirits can be seen.

Why do you resist what the scriptures plainly say? The scriptures say the witch of Endor "saw" Samuel. She described his appearance to king Saul. What more proof do you need?

1 Sam 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

The woman mistakenly called Samuel a god, but what she saw was his spirit. When she described this spirit, king Saul recognized it as Samuel.

It doesn't get any plainer than this. Saul also held a conversation with Samuel, which shows spirits can make noise if they so desire.

Now, Saul did not see or hear Samuel, he had to rely on the woman to speak to Samuel. So one person can see and hear a spirit, while another person may not. But the one person is truly seeing and hearing this spirit.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Why do you resist what the scriptures plainly say? The scriptures say the witch of Endor "saw" Samuel. She described his appearance to king Saul. What more proof do you need?

1 Sam 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

The woman mistakenly called Samuel a god, but what she saw was his spirit. When she described this spirit, king Saul recognized it as Samuel.

It doesn't get any plainer than this. Saul also held a conversation with Samuel, which shows spirits can make noise if they so desire.

Now, Saul did not see or hear Samuel, he had to rely on the woman to speak to Samuel. So one person can see and hear a spirit, while another person may not. But the one person is truly seeing and hearing this spirit.

Why do you resist the Scriptures? The witch of Endor also saw 'gods' coming up out of the Earth.

She saw 'elohiym' (plural) and she saw an old man. Samuel was the old man. The 'elohiym' were other beings.

 

[righteousdude2]

Nice Spin, Dude.....

righteousdude2 has seen a guy that was murdered [demonic manifestation]...eyeball to eyeball, so both Jesus and Paul must've not been telling the truth.

We've found someone who can prove the Bible to be untrustworthy, I guess.

....how you arrived at that I will never know. I clearly stated that I came eyeball-to-eyeball with the dark manifestation of the dead guy's demonic host.

I do not see how you can draw that conclusion from my example, if you had read the entire article (which you apparently did not do). However, it is also evident that you are not reading the entire context of Scripture, or you would see that all of us have been saying, all along, that demons find a way to attach themselves to the behaviors and personality of the deceased, causing what many see and believe to be manifestations, or ghosts.

Come on Fred, get with the program and quit twisting and spinning one line to read the way you want it to read in order to solidify your argument. You seemed like a sensible person, so why are you not applying what appears to be a capable gift [you possess], to what comes from the keys of your PC? I see and hear two different Freds? Like the wagging tail on the barking dog, which one am I to believe? Are you playing demons advocate to be funny and argumentative, or are you just being a Steadfast Fred?

Me thinks, Fred needs to go back and read my entire article. I never said it was the actual [murdered] person. I said, "supernatural side of our world, and discovered that demons can do things to mess with both the believers and nonbelievers minds. And if an angel can be manifest itself, so can the dark shadows of demons." :tear:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

....how you arrived at that I will never know. I clearly stated that I came eyeball-to-eyeball with the dark manifestation of the dead guy's demonic host.

I do not see how you can draw that conclusion from my example, if you had read the entire article (which you apparently did not do). However, it is also evident that you are not reading the entire context of Scripture, or you would see that all of us have been saying, all along, that demons find a way to attach themselves to the behaviors and personality of the deceased, causing what many see and believe to be manifestations, or ghosts.

Come on Fred, get with the program and quit twisting and spinning one line to read the way you want it to read in order to solidify your argument. You seemed like a sensible person, so why are you not applying what appears to be a capable gift [you possess], to what comes from the keys of your PC? I see and hear two different Freds? Like the wagging tail on the barking dog, which one am I to believe? Are you playing demons advocate to be funny and argumentative, or are you just being a Steadfast Fred?

Me thinks, Fred needs to go back and read my entire article. I never said it was the actual [murdered] person. I said, "supernatural side of our world, and discovered that demons can do things to mess with both the believers and nonbelievers minds. And if an angel can be manifest itself, so can the dark shadows of demons." :tear:

No, that is not clearly what you said. What you clearly said is you came eyball to eyball with a guy that was murdered.

 

[Winman]

Why do you resist the Scriptures? The witch of Endor also saw 'gods' coming up out of the Earth.

She saw 'elohiym' (plural) and she saw an old man. Samuel was the old man. The 'elohiym' were other beings.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. After the woman said she saw gods ascending out of the earth, Saul immediately asked her, "What form is he of?", read and see for yourself. She answered that she saw an old man coming up covered with a mantle in response to his question.

What I am saying is that Saul understood elohiym to be the spirit of a man. He asked what form is HE (singular) of. He did not ask what form are THEY (plural) of.

I looked up elohiym in Strong's Concordance, and it does say it is a plural term, but it can also be used of individuals;

1 Kings 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

In this verse, elohiym is translated "goddess" and "god" in the singular and is specifically speaking of individual gods.

We are getting away from the topic. The fact is, the scriptures show that spirits can be seen and heard by man on occasion. In the scripture I showed in Job, the spirit was not inhabiting a body, yet Eliphaz could see it's image and heard it's voice.

 

[righteousdude2]

I Can Understand What you Write...

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. After the woman said she saw gods ascending out of the earth, Saul immediately asked her, "What form is he of?", read and see for yourself. She answered that she saw an old man coming up covered with a mantle in response to his question.

What I am saying is that Saul understood elohiym to be the spirit of a man. He asked what form is HE (singular) of. He did not ask what form are THEY (plural) of.

I looked up elohiym in Strong's Concordance, and it does say it is a plural term, but it can also be used of individuals;

1 Kings 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

In this verse, elohiym is translated "goddess" and "god" in the singular and is specifically speaking of individual gods.

We are getting away from the topic. The fact is, the scriptures show that spirits can be seen and heard by man on occasion. In the scripture I showed in Job, the spirit was not inhabiting a body, yet Eliphaz could see it's image and heard it's voice.

....so why can't Steadfast Fred? You've made your point quite clearly. It seems that SF just wants to play the part of devil's advocate, and I think it is time to cut your losses and move on. As long as you know what you believe...means ti's time to shake the dust and sand off your sandals and head on down the road. You've beaten this horse beyond a humane death.

 

[Winman]

....so why can't Steadfast Fred? You've made your point quite clearly. It seems that SF just wants to play the part of devil's advocate, and I think it is time to cut your losses and move on. As long as you know what you believe...means ti's time to shake the dust and sand off your sandals and head on down the road. You've beaten this horse beyond a humane death.

What is truly interesting that no one has discussed is why some people can see these things while others cannot. The witch of Endor could see and hear Samuel, but Saul could not.

There have been many UFO reports like this, where several people witnessed a UFO and pointed it out to others nearby, but these folks could not see it, even when the object was very close and obvious to those who did see it.

Now that would make an interesting discussion.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

One thing I glean from the story of the witch of Endor is that dead people do not come out of the earth unless they are summoned by someone. (Saul wanted to see Samuel and so had the witch summon him)

If righteousdude2 saw a murdered man standing in front of him, he must have summoned that man.