demons versus mental illness

[donnA]

Was David demon possessed? He wrote a psalm about depression, described it perfectly.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Salamander: //Hmmm? I wonder if any of you consider demonic
posession can occur in objects as well as people?//

I've had a few computers that appeared to be demon
possessed. Of course, one was a Compaq that talked over
my 12K-byte Modem to Compaq HQ in Hong Kong ...

{that was back when we payed for internet access
BY THE MINUTE (it was like 50¢ a minute)
Needless to say, we talked like kids IM today on
cell/satellite phones. }

 

[James_Newman]

Was David demon possessed? He wrote a psalm about depression, described it perfectly.

But he forgot to call it a disease. No one disputes the existence of sadness.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

David was oppressed, not possessed. God's people cannot be possessed by devils.

Also, as James Newman pointed out, David did not call it a disease.

 

[amity]

If someone here called depression a disease I must've missed that. But yes, in fact if you understand the concept of "disease" then depression or any form of mental illness is a disease.

And BTW, I didn't say that epilepsy was not a mental illness because I was making a value judgment. It was just a statement of fact. If someone with epilepsy happens to have some mental deficit, then that is a separate problem from the epilepsy. Epileptics in general do not suffer from any form of mental disability whatsoever. Epilepsy is a neurological problem, not a mental problem.

And Tiny, I imagine you might have been told that your son, depending on his age, might well regain much of the brain function he has lost. If a child is young enough, even removing an entire cerebral hemisphere can be overcome, as the remaining brain tissue can adapt and take over the functions of that which was lost. At any rate, I have never seen that IQ is correlated with happiness, success, godliness, or living a worthwhile life, is it? It is not one of the most important things in life, to me at least.

 

[Ed Edwards]

But he forgot to call it a disease. No one disputes the existence of sadness.

Foul! Unnecessary roughness of a Christian Lady.
You have to give 12 scriptures supporting your
viewpoint (if you have a viewpoint, scriptures
about salvation if you don't have a viewpoint).

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amity: //Epilepsy is a neurological problem, not a mental problem.//

Discern the similarities and differences between "neurological problem"
and "mental problem". Give examples of each. Thank you.

 

[Ed Edwards]

David was oppressed, not possessed. God's people cannot be possessed by devils.

Also, as James Newman pointed out, David did not call it a disease.

Scriptures for 'oppression' not 'possession' please. Thank you.

BTW, David also didn't speak about Demon Rum

 

[Jon-Marc]

While it's possible that some mental illness (as in Jesus' Day) is caused by "demon" possession, how can one know the difference? I worked in a VA medical center for 28 years. It was primarily a psychiatric hospital. A friend of mine rebuked a patient there in the name of Jesus, and the patient recoiled in fear, crying, "No. don't do that!" Was he possessed, or was he just "religious" despite being crazy? :godisgood:

 

[James_Newman]

Foul! Unnecessary roughness of a Christian Lady.
You have to give 12 scriptures supporting your
viewpoint (if you have a viewpoint, scriptures
about salvation if you don't have a viewpoint).

I think the foul is the unnecessary derailment of an argument by intentional jesting (which is not convenient).

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Acts 10:38 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

[James_Newman]

If someone here called depression a disease I must've missed that. But yes, in fact if you understand the concept of "disease" then depression or any form of mental illness is a disease.

I must have misunderstood your OP.

I say demonic possession and mental illness (depression or other) are two separate realities. What say ye?

I thought an illness was a disease. I don't believe in mood diseases.

 

[Amy.G]

While Jesus (and the apostlies) healed many of physical ailments and demon possession not to mention raising people from the dead, I think we can all agree that healings like that are not happening these days. Although I believe and have seen many healings take place, I have yet to see someone raised from the dead.
The main 'healing' our Lord spoke of and taught was spiritual healing. He chose to heal in the physical sense in order to prove that He was (is) God.


Mark 2
8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, "Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, 'Arise, take up your bed and walk'? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"--He said to the paralytic, 11 "I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house." 12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, "We never saw anything like this!"

The point is that we can't wait for miraculous healing, we have to use the common sense that God gave us and seek medical help as well as pray for God's will.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I think the foul is the unnecessary derailment of an argument by intentional jesting (which is not convenient).

I was serious, not jesting.

I am a Deacon and deacons should have one foot in the grave:

1 Timothy 3:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
Likewise must the Deacons bee graue,
not double tongued, not giuen to much wine,
not greedy of filthy lucre,

 

[Gwyneth]

Amity: //Epilepsy is a neurological problem, not a mental problem.//

Discern the similarities and differences between "neurological problem"
and "mental problem". Give examples of each. Thank you.

Autism is also a neurological disorder, one of my grandsons suffers with this .

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Don't you mean Oppressed?

Yes, I made a boo boo. I meant oppressed. Thank you for catching that. I rarely make mistakes.

Christians can NOT be possessed.

Possessed: spurred or moved by a strong feeling, madness, or a supernatural power (often fol. by by, of, or with): The army fought as if possessed. The village believed her to be possessed of the devil.

They CAN be oppressed:

Oppressed: To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority: a people who were oppressed by tyranny.

And they CAN be obsessed over possession and oppression. :BangHead:

Obsessed: having an obsession (usually fol. by with or by): He is obsessed with eliminating guilt.

 

[amity]

Amity: //Epilepsy is a neurological problem, not a mental problem.//

Discern the similarities and differences between "neurological problem"
and "mental problem". Give examples of each. Thank you.

What I meant by neurological problem is something that affects physical function, but the mind is intact. (But my categorization is faulty; see below):
Parkinson's disease, which causes tremors, weakness, and loss of muscular control.
Paralysis, which causes loss of voluntary muscle function. Stroke (usually). Head trauma.
Neuropathy, damage to peripheral nerves, often due to uncontrolled diabetes.
Epilepsy.

What I meant by mental problem, one which affects the mind, but often no structural cause can be found:
Alzheimer's, autism, Asperger's, synesthesia.
Psychosis, hallucinations, depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, hysteria, perceptual or cognitive dysfunction, learning disabilities.
This last type of problem often caused by a neurotransmitter or other chemical imbalance with no obvious damage or structural malformation to brain itself.

There is a lot of overlap, and I did not mean to imply there isn't. An example of both factors operating together might be migraine headaches, which are basically a neurological (actually circulatory) problem that can nonetheless cause perceptual and emotional effects. Ditto autism, etc., affects the mind, although there is some neurologic cause not yet identified. Head trauma and stroke, though basically a physical injury to the brain, can sometimes produce bizarre changes in personality and mental functioning, and can also produce seizures and paralysis and many other neurologic symptoms. If you are interested in the interaction of neurology and mental functioning, please read the fascinating book The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat. It is wonderfully written case histories of people with assorted odd neurological impairments, written by a neurologist for lay people. Author is Oliver Sacks, M.D. I couldn't put it down. Here is a Wikipedia article about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Mistook_His_Wife_for_a_Hat

But epilepsy is definitely in the former category. The mind is usually unaffected, except during an actual seizure, when the patient usually loses consciousness. All a seizure is, is a random discharge of electricity within the brain. Often there is some physical malformation or injury at the root of it, but oftentimes they can't find a clear cause for chronic seizures (anyone can have a seizure without having epilepsy). If seizures are not well controlled they can result in hypoxia, too little oxygen in the blood, and that can eventually do widspread brain damage and loss of mental function, but in general people with epilepsy are just like everyone else except that they have seizures every so often. Some epileptics have several seizures an hour and it is very difficult to control. Some never have seizures at all. But the seizures themselves are fairly innocuous as long as the person is protected from injury. One area of overlap in epilepsy is temporal lobe seizures, where the patient often remains conscious and can have some strange mental manifestations. A friend of mine is college had temporal lobe epilepsy and would get an aura of extreme fear followed by the inability to speak, although she could still understand language just fine. This would last for 5 or 10 minutes and then she was back to normal. Very intelligent and definitely a mentally sound woman.

At any rate, although neurological and mental problems are still a frontier for research, "they" do have a lot of knowledge and insight into what causes what. All of these things have a physical basis, whether they affect the mind or not.

 

[donnA]

If depression is caused by demon possession, then can christian be demon possessed? if not then explain how there can be christians with depression. It doesn't matter what david called it, would you say he was demon possessed, was the question, or are questions too hard. Also explain why anyone should believe anything medical coming from someone who is not a doctor, but presumes to make medical diagnosis, and tell people what if any medications they need.
As I'll remind you once agian, praticing medicine without a license is a crime in this country.

Theres a big difference between feeling sad by events in life, and having a an imballance in chemicals in the brain. If you can't trust medical science to know the difference, then they aren't trust worthy for anything else either.

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

rbell is right... I know my son is not demon possesed but he has epilepsy.
His brain surgery from his epilepsy has left him with about an IQ of 75.
So when it was insinuated that mental illness is caused by demons, I wanted to make sure they were not talking about epilepsy.

Some people just need to get an education about an issue before they start sounding like the mother off of the movie "Waterboy"

"It's of the deeeeeviiil!"
That foosball's of the deevil!

I believe demon possession exists, and Bapmom has laid out a good guideline to recognize it.

Tim...I agree 100%. It is absurd that anyone even suggest epilepsy be caused by demonic possession.



Not to open the mental illness medication question again, however it is interesting to note that anti-seizure medications are often used to treat the manic phase of bipolar disorder, i.e. Depakote, Tegretol, and Trileptal.

Bill

 

[rbell]

What I meant by mental problem, one which affects the mind, but often no structural cause can be found:
Alzheimer's, autism, Asperger's, synesthesia.
Psychosis, hallucinations, depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, hysteria, perceptual or cognitive dysfunction, learning disabilities.
This last type of problem often caused by a neurotransmitter or other chemical imbalance with no obvious damage or structural malformation to brain itself.

One slight modification here: Alzheimer's can be evidentially proven; however, it is a post-mortem diagnosis. Alzheimer's patients have a plaque-like substance that destroys brain tissue. It can only be found during an autopsy...although later-stage AD is a pretty clear diagnosis from symptoms. Thus, most medical diagnoses for dementia will say something like, "Dementia, possible Alzheimer's."